[dart-misc] Do people generally use dartfmt?

[Danny Tuppeny]

I've been running it on some code lately and I can't say I'm a fan... I
think 80 characters is ridiculously short (every method signature seems to
end up wrapped horribly) and code I split across multiple lines for
readability is all being unwrapped.

Here's an example - the code on the left looks much better to me (it looks
even better if we used tabs at 4x space, but meh), especially the method at
the bottom (I don't think it'd look so bad with string.format, but it looks
horrible like this).

So I'm wondering if people are actually using it? If general consensus is
yes, I might make an effort, but otherwise I'm thinking of just ditching it
and going with tabs.

<Loading Image...>

[Joel Trottier-Hébert]

I personally use it on all my projects. I didn't like the 80 width by
default. I'm still not a fan, but I'm more neutral to it than anything now.
What I like about it, is when you contribute to a project that uses it, you
don't have useless comments in pull requests about code style and all that.

If you had a big code base, and were many people to work on it, I wouldn't
mind using another line width if that'd help you.

To do so, you can pass an argument to dartfmt to specify the line length.

ie:
dartfmt -l 120

Hope that helps you.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I've been running it on some code lately and I can't say I'm a fan... I
think 80 characters is ridiculously short (every method signature seems to
end up wrapped horribly) and code I split across multiple lines for
readability is all being unwrapped.
Here's an example - the code on the left looks much better to me (it looks
even better if we used tabs at 4x space, but meh), especially the method at
the bottom (I don't think it'd look so bad with string.format, but it looks
horrible like this).
So I'm wondering if people are actually using it? If general consensus is
yes, I might make an effort, but otherwise I'm thinking of just ditching it
and going with tabs.
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5B1yVaGvRXc/V6SXjdpZYhI/AAAAAAABGJI/-CSsJ4CO0REZcF0KwvEqu83QeWZ-HPuiwCLcB/s1600/example.png>
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[Joel Trottier-Hébert]

Also, offtopic a bit -- you should take a look at the http package, and
also the usage of async/await (but I'm sure you know about the last one)

Post by Joel Trottier-Hébert
I personally use it on all my projects. I didn't like the 80 width by
default. I'm still not a fan, but I'm more neutral to it than anything now.
What I like about it, is when you contribute to a project that uses it, you
don't have useless comments in pull requests about code style and all that.
If you had a big code base, and were many people to work on it, I wouldn't
mind using another line width if that'd help you.
To do so, you can pass an argument to dartfmt to specify the line length.
dartfmt -l 120
Hope that helps you.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I've been running it on some code lately and I can't say I'm a fan... I
think 80 characters is ridiculously short (every method signature seems to
end up wrapped horribly) and code I split across multiple lines for
readability is all being unwrapped.
Here's an example - the code on the left looks much better to me (it
looks even better if we used tabs at 4x space, but meh), especially the
method at the bottom (I don't think it'd look so bad with string.format,
but it looks horrible like this).
So I'm wondering if people are actually using it? If general consensus is
yes, I might make an effort, but otherwise I'm thinking of just ditching it
and going with tabs.
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5B1yVaGvRXc/V6SXjdpZYhI/AAAAAAABGJI/-CSsJ4CO0REZcF0KwvEqu83QeWZ-HPuiwCLcB/s1600/example.png>
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[Danny Tuppeny]

Post by Joel Trottier-Hébert
If you had a big code base, and were many people to work on it, I wouldn't
mind using another line width if that'd help you.
To do so, you can pass an argument to dartfmt to specify the line length.
dartfmt -l 120

I did try a longer line width (it's a VS Code extension I'm working on, so
I'm not actually using dartfmt directly, but through the Analysis Server)
but it makes the issue shown at the bottom of my screenshot even worse
(more stuff gets unwrapped onto long lines).

I think it's mostly OK, I just think it uses the line length really badly -
it uses it as a max, and also as a "goal" in unwrapping things. If it just
didn't remove linebreaks I'd inserted before dots, I'd probably be really
happy with it (I'd set a longer line length, then not have the unwrapping)!


Also, offtopic a bit -- you should take a look at the http package, and

Post by Joel Trottier-Hébert
also the usage of async/await (but I'm sure you know about the last one)

Cool, I didn't know about the http package (I did know about await). I've
actually not written any Dart in years and this code was written a few
weeks back with no editor help so it was a bit basic (it was the thing that
motivated me to start Dart-Code <https://github.com/DanTup/Dart-Code>!).
I'm just about to go back and start tidying it up (to get some real usage
of Dart-Code) :-)

[Jan Mostert]

Up the line-length to 120 and I'll probably use it, 80 is fine for normal
OO code, but when you start in-lining some lambdas, you overrun the 80
character limit very quickly.
In the above screenshots, the "unformatted" code actually reads easier.

--
Jan Vladimir Mostert
janvladimirmostert.com

Post by Joel Trottier-Hébert
If you had a big code base, and were many people to work on it, I wouldn't

Post by Joel Trottier-Hébert
mind using another line width if that'd help you.
To do so, you can pass an argument to dartfmt to specify the line length.
dartfmt -l 120

I did try a longer line width (it's a VS Code extension I'm working on, so
I'm not actually using dartfmt directly, but through the Analysis Server)
but it makes the issue shown at the bottom of my screenshot even worse
(more stuff gets unwrapped onto long lines).
I think it's mostly OK, I just think it uses the line length really badly
- it uses it as a max, and also as a "goal" in unwrapping things. If it
just didn't remove linebreaks I'd inserted before dots, I'd probably be
really happy with it (I'd set a longer line length, then not have the
unwrapping)!
Also, offtopic a bit -- you should take a look at the http package, and

Post by Joel Trottier-Hébert
also the usage of async/await (but I'm sure you know about the last one)

Cool, I didn't know about the http package (I did know about await). I've
actually not written any Dart in years and this code was written a few
weeks back with no editor help so it was a bit basic (it was the thing that
motivated me to start Dart-Code <https://github.com/DanTup/Dart-Code>!).
I'm just about to go back and start tidying it up (to get some real usage
of Dart-Code) :-)
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[Danny Tuppeny]

Post by Jan Mostert
Up the line-length to 120 and I'll probably use it, 80 is fine for normal
OO code, but when you start in-lining some lambdas, you overrun the 80
character limit very quickly.

The problem with upping the limit is that even more code gets unwrapped as
shown at the end of the file and that really bugs me :(

I both like and dislike it's idea that you should always get the same
output for the same input (ignoring whitespace), but some other editors
(like Visual Studio) definitely allow you to manually insert linebreaks in
some types of code and won't remove them (uesr knows best!).

I'll try it for a while and see how I get on. Doesn't seem like I'd be
totally against the grain if I didn't use it.

Post by Jan Mostert
In the above screenshots, the "unformatted" code actually reads easier.

My thoughts exactly :(

[Jan Mostert]

IntelliJ also doesn't remove manually added line-breaks or unwraps code
that you've wrapped over multiple lines for readability, unless you have
many blank lines, then it might compact them a bit.
Currently the IntelliJ formatter does a better job for us than the dart
formatter does since we can specify line length of 120 as well as not lose
developer-wrapped code.

Writing this:

blah.dosomething
.dosomethingElse
.uppercase
.sort
.filter

should never become:

blah.dosomething.dosomethingElse
.uppercase.sort.filter

There's reason I wrote it like in the first example
The first thing developers will now do is curse the previous dev who wrote
it in such a bad format
and re-format it like it originally was to be able to read it easier.















--
Jan Vladimir Mostert
janvladimirmostert.com

Post by Jan Mostert
Up the line-length to 120 and I'll probably use it, 80 is fine for normal

Post by Jan Mostert
OO code, but when you start in-lining some lambdas, you overrun the 80
character limit very quickly.

The problem with upping the limit is that even more code gets unwrapped as
shown at the end of the file and that really bugs me :(
I both like and dislike it's idea that you should always get the same
output for the same input (ignoring whitespace), but some other editors
(like Visual Studio) definitely allow you to manually insert linebreaks in
some types of code and won't remove them (uesr knows best!).
I'll try it for a while and see how I get on. Doesn't seem like I'd be
totally against the grain if I didn't use it.

Post by Jan Mostert
In the above screenshots, the "unformatted" code actually reads easier.

My thoughts exactly :(
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[Steve Lympany]

Yes, I use it, and just expect it to be there.

I have some cases - parts of files - that I'd prefer to be excluded from formatting. Maybe a tag could be invented? Eg extending triple slash...

/// #*
Ignored code for formatting
..
/// *#

That could be extended to set line widths too, maybe?

Otherwise, for me, it just works fine. I haven't studied it much (maybe the above is already available!).
S

[Gonzalo Chumillas]

I use it from my Atom editor. It automatically formats the code just before
saving it. But I would change some things. I have always used the PEAR's
coding standards:
https://pear.php.net/manual/en/standards.php

It would be nice adopting that format. But it is better than using nothing.

['Bob Nystrom' via Dart Misc]

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I'm wondering if people are actually using it? If general consensus is
yes, I might make an effort, but otherwise I'm thinking of just ditching it
and going with tabs.

Yup, we require all internal Google Dart users to format with dartfmt
(using the default 80 column line limit) in order to commit code. That's on
the order of millions of lines of code.

Most (but, strangely not all) of the Dart code maintained by the Dart team
is also formatted with dartfmt.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
especially the method at the bottom (I don't think it'd look so bad with
string.format, but it looks horrible like this).

I think it would look a little better if you weren't using ".." for the
sort() call. If you don't want it to be one line, then going out of your
way to make it one *statement* is a little odd.

After that, I'm personally fine with the method chain being all on one line.

I do prefer the 80 column limit. It causes some extra wrapping, but it
means I don't have to awkwardly scroll horizontally to see all of the code
like I have to do right now with your screenshot in gmail. :)

Post by Danny Tuppeny
If it just didn't remove linebreaks I'd inserted before dots, I'd probably
be really happy with it (I'd set a longer line length, then not have the
unwrapping)!

Preserving some of your hand formatting, but not all of it, interferes with a
lot of the goals
<https://github.com/dart-lang/dart_style/wiki/FAQ#why-have-a-formatter> of
the formatter.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I have some cases - parts of files - that I'd prefer to be excluded from
formatting. Maybe a tag could be invented? Eg extending triple slash...
/// #*
Ignored code for formatting
..
/// *#

See here:
https://github.com/dart-lang/dart_style/wiki/FAQ#why-cant-i-tell-the-formatter-to-ignore-a-region-of-code

Post by Danny Tuppeny
blah.dosomething
.dosomethingElse
.uppercase
.sort
.filter
blah.dosomething.dosomethingElse

.uppercase.sort.filter

This example is kind of confusing because you have a bunch of things that
are syntactically properties (i.e. getters), but are named like they are
methods ("dosomething").

The formatter is designed to do a good job on real-world code. You can
always make non-idiomatic code that gets formatted weird because the
formatter isn't tuned for that. If you were to make this example a little
more realistic, like:

blah
.doSomething()
.doSomethingElse()
.uppercase
.sorted
.filter(() => stuff > whatever);


Then you will see it also formats it more like you prefer.

Cheers!

– bob



On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 8:03 AM, Gonzalo Chumillas <

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I use it from my Atom editor. It automatically formats the code just
before saving it. But I would change some things. I have always used the
https://pear.php.net/manual/en/standards.php
It would be nice adopting that format. But it is better than using nothing.
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[Danny Tuppeny]

Post by Danny Tuppeny
especially the method at the bottom (I don't think it'd look so bad with

Post by Danny Tuppeny
string.format, but it looks horrible like this).

I think it would look a little better if you weren't using ".." for the
sort() call. If you don't want it to be one line, then going out of your
way to make it one *statement* is a little odd.

I didn't go out of my way to make it one statement, it just felt more
natural (otherwise I'd have loads of variables only being used on the next
line, which seems rather noisy).

I'm a total Dart noob though, so don't for a minute think this code is
ideal. I'd be really interested to know how you'd write/format it though! A
copy of the file is here:

https://gist.github.com/DanTup/2fbdde2b5c5a69520c56ba072ca28b7e


I do prefer the 80 column limit. It causes some extra wrapping, but it

Post by Danny Tuppeny
means I don't have to awkwardly scroll horizontally to see all of the code
like I have to do right now with your screenshot in gmail. :)

To be fair, that's two screens side-by-side! :P

I've just got an ultrawide monitor (2660x1080) and I have all this width
not being used... Even with two VS Code windows open (both with the
explorer view down the side) 80 characters takes up hardly any of the
screen.

I don't think constraining the width is a bad idea, it just feels like 80
is too short (and it feels like indenting with 2 spaces, which I think is
also insane, was done because of this width) :(


If it just didn't remove linebreaks I'd inserted before dots, I'd probably

Post by Danny Tuppeny

Post by Danny Tuppeny
be really happy with it (I'd set a longer line length, then not have the
unwrapping)!

Preserving some of your hand formatting, but not all of it, interferes
with a lot of the goals
<https://github.com/dart-lang/dart_style/wiki/FAQ#why-have-a-formatter>
of the formatter.

Yeah, I get that. I can see both advantages and disadvantages to allowing
the existing format to influence the output. However now it feels like I
start tweaking my code just to try and get it to format in a readable way,
and that kinda makes me question the use of it :(


The formatter is designed to do a good job on real-world code. You can

Post by Danny Tuppeny
always make non-idiomatic code that gets formatted weird because the
formatter isn't tuned for that. If you were to make this example a little
blah
.doSomething()
.doSomethingElse()
.uppercase
.sorted
.filter(() => stuff > whatever);
Then you will see it also formats it more like you prefer.

But presumably that only doesn't get unwrapped because the whole thing is
too long? It seems weird that you could write two identical chunks like
that, one 81 chars, one 79 and they would format very differently.

I presume the rules on the decisions the formatter uses aren't really
documented other than in the source?

['Bob Nystrom' via Dart Misc]

Post by Danny Tuppeny
especially the method at the bottom (I don't think it'd look so bad with

Post by 'Bob Nystrom' via Dart Misc

Post by Danny Tuppeny
string.format, but it looks horrible like this).

I think it would look a little better if you weren't using ".." for the
sort() call. If you don't want it to be one line, then going out of your
way to make it one *statement* is a little odd.

I didn't go out of my way to make it one statement, it just felt more
natural (otherwise I'd have loads of variables only being used on the next
line, which seems rather noisy).
I'm a total Dart noob though, so don't for a minute think this code is
ideal. I'd be really interested to know how you'd write/format it though! A
https://gist.github.com/DanTup/2fbdde2b5c5a69520c56ba072ca28b7e

If it were my code, I'd do:

String toQueryString(Map<String, String> data) {
var items = data.keys.map((k) => "$k=${encode(data[k])}").toList();
items.sort();

return items.join("&");
}

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I do prefer the 80 column limit. It causes some extra wrapping, but it

Post by 'Bob Nystrom' via Dart Misc
means I don't have to awkwardly scroll horizontally to see all of the code
like I have to do right now with your screenshot in gmail. :)

To be fair, that's two screens side-by-side! :P

Right, but that's a typical use case when you're doing code reviews,
looking at diffs, etc.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I've just got an ultrawide monitor (2660x1080) and I have all this width
not being used...

Many users (including me, for what it's worth) do almost all of their work
on a laptop screen.

When I do use a big monitor, I use the extra horizontal space for other
columns, docs, other tool windows, etc.

Readability of text generally goes down when lines go above a certain
length. The wider the line, the longer it takes your eye to track back to
the beginning of the next line, and the greater chance of making mistakes
and skipping or double-reading a line. That's why newspapers use several
relatively columns of text on their big wide sheets of paper.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
Even with two VS Code windows open (both with the explorer view down the
side) 80 characters takes up hardly any of the screen.
I don't think constraining the width is a bad idea, it just feels like 80
is too short (and it feels like indenting with 2 spaces, which I think is
also insane, was done because of this width) :(

I don't know where the 2 space thing comes from, but it's used in languages
at Google that don't have the 80 column limit. We just followed other
Google language styles that all use 2 spaces. It seems like most of the
open source ecosystem is going in that direction too.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
The formatter is designed to do a good job on real-world code. You can

Post by 'Bob Nystrom' via Dart Misc
always make non-idiomatic code that gets formatted weird because the
formatter isn't tuned for that. If you were to make this example a little
blah
.doSomething()
.doSomethingElse()
.uppercase
.sorted
.filter(() => stuff > whatever);
Then you will see it also formats it more like you prefer.

But presumably that only doesn't get unwrapped because the whole thing is
too long?

Right.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
It seems weird that you could write two identical chunks like that, one 81
chars, one 79 and they would format very differently.

Well, we're talking about a tool whose job is to produce an
optically-consumed output. Spatial dimensions matter.

I presume the rules on the decisions the formatter uses aren't really

Post by Danny Tuppeny
documented other than in the source?

Alas, no, though I have an issue
<https://github.com/dart-lang/dart_style/issues/395> to do that. I did
write up how the formatter applies its rules
<http://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2015/09/08/the-hardest-program-ive-ever-written/>,
though. It's pretty complex.

The rules themselves are simpler, but they also have a good bit of
sophistication in them. Like many user interface issues, what you
intuitively think is simple when you do it manually actually turns out to
have a large amount of subtlety that you aren't conscious of.

Cheers!

– bob

[Danny Tuppeny]

Post by 'Bob Nystrom' via Dart Misc
String toQueryString(Map<String, String> data) {
var items = data.keys.map((k) => "$k=${encode(data[k])}").toList();
items.sort();
return items.join("&");
}

Hmmm, that does kinda look reasonable and fit within the 80 characters.
See, it's just noobishness :)
(is it just me that hates that sort doesn't return the sorted list?
performance sherformance!)


To be fair, that's two screens side-by-side! :P

Post by 'Bob Nystrom' via Dart Misc
Right, but that's a typical use case when you're doing code reviews,
looking at diffs, etc.

It's not that common for me (I prefer inline diffs and use side-by-side
rarely), but they're points. Actually, when I merge I end up with three
columns on monitor and the output on a second, so maybe you're on to
something. (.. that we should obviously stop doing code reviews (or at
least merges!))


Many users (including me, for what it's worth) do almost all of their work

Post by 'Bob Nystrom' via Dart Misc
on a laptop screen.

You just need to get 21:9 laptops! :)
(if they're not a thing; they should be)

Post by 'Bob Nystrom' via Dart Misc
Readability of text generally goes down when lines go above a certain
length. The wider the line, the longer it takes your eye to track back to
the beginning of the next line, and the greater chance of making mistakes
and skipping or double-reading a line. That's why newspapers use several
relatively columns of text on their big wide sheets of paper.

Yeah but newspapers are written for mortals and we are developers ;)

Seriously though, I think the reading is very different - for one, our code
tends to always be indented, which the 80 chars doesn't consider. That
said, Dart isn't as bad as some (C# namespace + class means we're in at 8
characters as a baseline, then every method body is at 12)!


I don't know where the 2 space thing comes from, but it's used in languages

Post by 'Bob Nystrom' via Dart Misc
at Google that don't have the 80 column limit. We just followed other
Google language styles that all use 2 spaces. It seems like most of the
open source ecosystem is going in that direction too.

I don't think I will ever be convinced spaces are a good idea. Tabs allow
devs to set their own widths, everyone is happy. Tabs for indenting, spaces
for alignment. Simples! ;P

Post by 'Bob Nystrom' via Dart Misc
Alas, no, though I have an issue
<https://github.com/dart-lang/dart_style/issues/395> to do that. I did
write up how the formatter applies its rules
<http://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2015/09/08/the-hardest-program-ive-ever-written/>,
though. It's pretty complex.

Cool, looks an interesting post, I'll have a read through. I quietly hoped
your blog would be wider than 80 characters but it is not. You win this
time!

[Don Olmstead]

I do not use dartfmt. I think Bob's done an impressive bit of engineering
with it but its not to the point where I would use it.

It produces some really ugly formatting in a lot of cases for my code. As
an example.

Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/>
classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(ClassMetadata clazz,
MetadataMatchFunction
matcher,
{bool includeFields:
defaultInclude,
bool includeConstructors:
defaultInclude,
bool includeMethods:
defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz,
includeFields,
includeConstructors,
includeMethods
).where(matcher);


Becomes

Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/ > classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(
ClassMetadata clazz, MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
{bool includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz, includeFields, includeConstructors, includeMethods)
.where(matcher);

[Danny Tuppeny]

That is a bit naff, though I can't but think those weird comments aren't
helping - what are they?

I wonder if they're open to changes to the formatter or if they consider
that making changes would somewhat defeat the idea of all the code being
the same..

Post by Don Olmstead
I do not use dartfmt. I think Bob's done an impressive bit of engineering
with it but its not to the point where I would use it.
It produces some really ugly formatting in a lot of cases for my code. As
an example.
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/>
classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(ClassMetadata clazz,
MetadataMatchFunction
matcher,
{bool includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz,
includeFields,
includeConstructors,
includeMethods
).where(matcher);
Becomes
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/ > classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(
ClassMetadata clazz, MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
{bool includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz, includeFields, includeConstructors, includeMethods)
.where(matcher);
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[Don Olmstead]

Generic method syntax.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
That is a bit naff, though I can't but think those weird comments aren't
helping - what are they?
I wonder if they're open to changes to the formatter or if they consider
that making changes would somewhat defeat the idea of all the code being
the same..

Post by Don Olmstead
I do not use dartfmt. I think Bob's done an impressive bit of engineering
with it but its not to the point where I would use it.
It produces some really ugly formatting in a lot of cases for my code. As
an example.
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/>
classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(ClassMetadata clazz,
MetadataMatchFunction
matcher,
{bool includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool
includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz,
includeFields,
includeConstructors,
includeMethods
).where(matcher);
Becomes
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/ > classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(
ClassMetadata clazz, MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
{bool includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz, includeFields, includeConstructors, includeMethods)
.where(matcher);
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new
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[Danny Tuppeny]

I'm confused - is that a first-class Dart thing, or some additional
tool/checker? Using comments for stuff doesn't seem very Dart-like?

Post by Don Olmstead
Generic method syntax.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
That is a bit naff, though I can't but think those weird comments aren't
helping - what are they?
I wonder if they're open to changes to the formatter or if they consider
that making changes would somewhat defeat the idea of all the code being
the same..

Post by Don Olmstead
I do not use dartfmt. I think Bob's done an impressive bit of
engineering with it but its not to the point where I would use it.
It produces some really ugly formatting in a lot of cases for my code.
As an example.
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/>
classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(ClassMetadata clazz,
MetadataMatchFunction
matcher,
{bool includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool
includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz,
includeFields,
includeConstructors,
includeMethods
).where(matcher);
Becomes
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/ > classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(
ClassMetadata clazz, MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
{bool includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz, includeFields, includeConstructors, includeMethods)
.where(matcher);
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new
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[Don Olmstead]

https://chromium.googlesource.com/external/github.com/dart-lang/dev_compiler/+/refs/heads/master/doc/GENERIC_METHODS.md

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I'm confused - is that a first-class Dart thing, or some additional
tool/checker? Using comments for stuff doesn't seem very Dart-like?

Post by Don Olmstead
Generic method syntax.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
That is a bit naff, though I can't but think those weird comments aren't
helping - what are they?
I wonder if they're open to changes to the formatter or if they consider
that making changes would somewhat defeat the idea of all the code being
the same..

Post by Don Olmstead
I do not use dartfmt. I think Bob's done an impressive bit of
engineering with it but its not to the point where I would use it.
It produces some really ugly formatting in a lot of cases for my code.
As an example.
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/>
classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(ClassMetadata clazz,
MetadataMatchFunction
matcher,
{bool includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool
includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz,
includeFields,
includeConstructors,
includeMethods
).where(matcher);
Becomes
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/ > classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(
ClassMetadata clazz, MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
{bool includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz, includeFields, includeConstructors, includeMethods)
.where(matcher);
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new
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[Danny Tuppeny]

Ah cool; thanks for the info - seems like it's just temporary then :)

Post by Don Olmstead
https://chromium.googlesource.com/external/github.com/dart-lang/dev_compiler/+/refs/heads/master/doc/GENERIC_METHODS.md

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I'm confused - is that a first-class Dart thing, or some additional
tool/checker? Using comments for stuff doesn't seem very Dart-like?

Post by Don Olmstead
Generic method syntax.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
That is a bit naff, though I can't but think those weird comments
aren't helping - what are they?
I wonder if they're open to changes to the formatter or if they
consider that making changes would somewhat defeat the idea of all the code
being the same..

Post by Don Olmstead
I do not use dartfmt. I think Bob's done an impressive bit of
engineering with it but its not to the point where I would use it.
It produces some really ugly formatting in a lot of cases for my code.
As an example.
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/>
classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(ClassMetadata clazz,
MetadataMatchFunction
matcher,
defaultInclude,
bool
includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz,
includeFields,
includeConstructors,
includeMethods
).where(matcher);
Becomes
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/ > classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(
ClassMetadata clazz, MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
{bool includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz, includeFields, includeConstructors, includeMethods)
.where(matcher);
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new
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[Don Olmstead]

Yes but the code will still end up getting mangled quite a bit by the
formatter.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
Ah cool; thanks for the info - seems like it's just temporary then :)

Post by Don Olmstead
https://chromium.googlesource.com/external/github.com/dart-
lang/dev_compiler/+/refs/heads/master/doc/GENERIC_METHODS.md

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I'm confused - is that a first-class Dart thing, or some additional
tool/checker? Using comments for stuff doesn't seem very Dart-like?

Post by Don Olmstead
Generic method syntax.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
That is a bit naff, though I can't but think those weird comments
aren't helping - what are they?
I wonder if they're open to changes to the formatter or if they
consider that making changes would somewhat defeat the idea of all the code
being the same..

Post by Don Olmstead
I do not use dartfmt. I think Bob's done an impressive bit of
engineering with it but its not to the point where I would use it.
It produces some really ugly formatting in a lot of cases for my
code. As an example.
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/>
classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(ClassMetadata clazz,
MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
defaultInclude,
bool
includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz,
includeFields,
includeConstructors,
includeMethods
).where(matcher);
Becomes
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/ > classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(
ClassMetadata clazz, MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
{bool includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz, includeFields, includeConstructors, includeMethods)
.where(matcher);
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new
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[Danny Tuppeny]

Sure; I was going off on a bit of a tangent because stuff in comments kinda
bugs me :)

Based on the discussion here, I'm gonna give the formatter a better go.
I'll leave it set to 80 and see how I get on for a bit. I really haven't
written much Dart (I never got on with any of the editors) so possibly
it'll feel less weird over time.

Post by Don Olmstead
Yes but the code will still end up getting mangled quite a bit by the
formatter.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
Ah cool; thanks for the info - seems like it's just temporary then :)

Post by Don Olmstead
https://chromium.googlesource.com/external/github.com/dart-lang/dev_compiler/+/refs/heads/master/doc/GENERIC_METHODS.md

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I'm confused - is that a first-class Dart thing, or some additional
tool/checker? Using comments for stuff doesn't seem very Dart-like?

Post by Don Olmstead
Generic method syntax.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
That is a bit naff, though I can't but think those weird comments
aren't helping - what are they?
I wonder if they're open to changes to the formatter or if they
consider that making changes would somewhat defeat the idea of all the code
being the same..

Post by Don Olmstead
I do not use dartfmt. I think Bob's done an impressive bit of
engineering with it but its not to the point where I would use it.
It produces some really ugly formatting in a lot of cases for my
code. As an example.
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/>
classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(ClassMetadata clazz,
MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
defaultInclude,
bool
includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool
includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz,
includeFields,
includeConstructors,
includeMethods
).where(matcher);
Becomes
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/ > classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(
ClassMetadata clazz, MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
{bool includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz, includeFields, includeConstructors,
includeMethods)
.where(matcher);
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new
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[Don Olmstead]

Definitely give it a go. In my case I don't like the output when it decides
to jam stuff on a single line. If that were to change I'd run all my code
through it.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
Sure; I was going off on a bit of a tangent because stuff in comments
kinda bugs me :)
Based on the discussion here, I'm gonna give the formatter a better go.
I'll leave it set to 80 and see how I get on for a bit. I really haven't
written much Dart (I never got on with any of the editors) so possibly
it'll feel less weird over time.

Post by Don Olmstead
Yes but the code will still end up getting mangled quite a bit by the
formatter.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
Ah cool; thanks for the info - seems like it's just temporary then :)

Post by Don Olmstead
https://chromium.googlesource.com/external/github.com/dart-
lang/dev_compiler/+/refs/heads/master/doc/GENERIC_METHODS.md

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I'm confused - is that a first-class Dart thing, or some additional
tool/checker? Using comments for stuff doesn't seem very Dart-like?

Post by Don Olmstead
Generic method syntax.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
That is a bit naff, though I can't but think those weird comments
aren't helping - what are they?
I wonder if they're open to changes to the formatter or if they
consider that making changes would somewhat defeat the idea of all the code
being the same..

Post by Don Olmstead
I do not use dartfmt. I think Bob's done an impressive bit of
engineering with it but its not to the point where I would use it.
It produces some really ugly formatting in a lot of cases for my
code. As an example.
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/>
classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(ClassMetadata clazz,
MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
{bool
includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool
includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool
includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz,
includeFields,
includeConstructors,
includeMethods
).where(matcher);
Becomes
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/ > classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(
ClassMetadata clazz, MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
{bool includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz, includeFields, includeConstructors,
includeMethods)
.where(matcher);
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/
dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new
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[Alec Henninger]

You could probably take any code snippet, think long and hard about its
artful indentation, and create a more delightful organization of code than
dartfmt would produce... to you. The value to me is that dartfmt is
completely automated, deterministic, and the results are pretty good for
most people (something humans can also have a hard time with). Consistent
formatting also reduces merge conflicts and diff distractions. I think the
practical benefits make the occasional less than ideal formatting more than
forgivable. The time and stress savings make dartfmt a joy to use if you
(and your team) are able to let go a little on what you may prefer.

Post by Don Olmstead
Definitely give it a go. In my case I don't like the output when it
decides to jam stuff on a single line. If that were to change I'd run all
my code through it.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
Sure; I was going off on a bit of a tangent because stuff in comments
kinda bugs me :)
Based on the discussion here, I'm gonna give the formatter a better go.
I'll leave it set to 80 and see how I get on for a bit. I really haven't
written much Dart (I never got on with any of the editors) so possibly
it'll feel less weird over time.

Post by Don Olmstead
Yes but the code will still end up getting mangled quite a bit by the
formatter.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
Ah cool; thanks for the info - seems like it's just temporary then :)

Post by Don Olmstead
https://chromium.googlesource.com/external/github.com/dart-lang/dev_compiler/+/refs/heads/master/doc/GENERIC_METHODS.md

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I'm confused - is that a first-class Dart thing, or some additional
tool/checker? Using comments for stuff doesn't seem very Dart-like?

Post by Don Olmstead
Generic method syntax.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
That is a bit naff, though I can't but think those weird comments
aren't helping - what are they?
I wonder if they're open to changes to the formatter or if they
consider that making changes would somewhat defeat the idea of all the code
being the same..

Post by Don Olmstead
I do not use dartfmt. I think Bob's done an impressive bit of
engineering with it but its not to the point where I would use it.
It produces some really ugly formatting in a lot of cases for my
code. As an example.
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/>
classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(ClassMetadata clazz,
MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
{bool
includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool
includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool
includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz,
includeFields,
includeConstructors,
includeMethods
).where(matcher);
Becomes
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/ > classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(
ClassMetadata clazz, MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
{bool includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz, includeFields, includeConstructors,
includeMethods)
.where(matcher);
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['Filip Hracek' via Dart Misc]

I'm just here to say that I use dartfmt on everything (Atom does that
automatically, and I have a keymapping in IntelliJ) and stay with 80 char
width everywhere, and not just on internal Google projects (where it's
required).

It may have seem arbitrary at first (consider that the first time I was
forced to do 80 chars was with *Java*...) but I'd never go back.

Benefits:

- shorter lines are generally (= not all the time, but most of the time)
more readable
- allows to have multiple files open on a big screen (or one file on
multiple places) — increases my productivity a *lot*
- forces you to write better code (once you're indented so much to the
right that the 80 chars limit leads to absurdly formatted code, you know
you need to refactor)

I completely understand there are also drawbacks, but for me personally
they're overridden by the benefits above.

Filip Hráček
https://google.com/+filiphracek

Post by Alec Henninger
You could probably take any code snippet, think long and hard about its
artful indentation, and create a more delightful organization of code than
dartfmt would produce... to you. The value to me is that dartfmt is
completely automated, deterministic, and the results are pretty good for
most people (something humans can also have a hard time with). Consistent
formatting also reduces merge conflicts and diff distractions. I think the
practical benefits make the occasional less than ideal formatting more than
forgivable. The time and stress savings make dartfmt a joy to use if you
(and your team) are able to let go a little on what you may prefer.

Post by Don Olmstead
Definitely give it a go. In my case I don't like the output when it
decides to jam stuff on a single line. If that were to change I'd run all
my code through it.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
Sure; I was going off on a bit of a tangent because stuff in comments
kinda bugs me :)
Based on the discussion here, I'm gonna give the formatter a better go.
I'll leave it set to 80 and see how I get on for a bit. I really haven't
written much Dart (I never got on with any of the editors) so possibly
it'll feel less weird over time.

Post by Don Olmstead
Yes but the code will still end up getting mangled quite a bit by the
formatter.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
Ah cool; thanks for the info - seems like it's just temporary then :)

Post by Don Olmstead
https://chromium.googlesource.com/external/github.com/dart-
lang/dev_compiler/+/refs/heads/master/doc/GENERIC_METHODS.md

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I'm confused - is that a first-class Dart thing, or some additional
tool/checker? Using comments for stuff doesn't seem very Dart-like?

Post by Don Olmstead
Generic method syntax.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
That is a bit naff, though I can't but think those weird comments
aren't helping - what are they?
I wonder if they're open to changes to the formatter or if they
consider that making changes would somewhat defeat the idea of all the code
being the same..

Post by Don Olmstead
I do not use dartfmt. I think Bob's done an impressive bit of
engineering with it but its not to the point where I would use it.
It produces some really ugly formatting in a lot of cases for my
code. As an example.
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/>
classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(ClassMetadata clazz,
MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
{bool
includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool
includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool
includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz,
includeFields,
includeConstructors,
includeMethods
).where(matcher);
Becomes
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/ > classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(
ClassMetadata clazz, MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
{bool includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz, includeFields, includeConstructors, includeMethods)
.where(matcher);
--
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dartlang.org/
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[Anders Holmgren]

It's an interesting topic code formatting. People tend to have rather
strong opinions, but interestingly I've noticed with myself, that what I
feel strongly about is fairly malleable.

I remember when I first came across dart's 80 char rule I reacted strongly
against it. I thought it silly in todays world with the amazing screens we
have.
I vented my complaint and Bob gave his justification. I didn't really buy
it at the time but I am very pro auto-formatting so thought I'd give it a
go.

Since the code took up less width of my screen I moved intellij's structure
panel to be always visible on the right and the project panel always
visible on the left with the code panel in between.

In time I became so used to that that I now cringe when editing Java code
at work and find myself making that code closer to 80 chars.

For me, dartfmt does a 'good enough' job that I always use it and much
prefer it when everyone has it turned on if I need to edit their code.

I much prefer a world where everyone uses exactly the same 'good enough'
formatter than one in which everyone manually formats code to their own
'perfect' ideal.

Vote 1: Fascist enforcement of code formatting!!

Post by 'Filip Hracek' via Dart Misc
I'm just here to say that I use dartfmt on everything (Atom does that
automatically, and I have a keymapping in IntelliJ) and stay with 80 char
width everywhere, and not just on internal Google projects (where it's
required).
It may have seem arbitrary at first (consider that the first time I was
forced to do 80 chars was with *Java*...) but I'd never go back.
- shorter lines are generally (= not all the time, but most of the
time) more readable
- allows to have multiple files open on a big screen (or one file on
multiple places) — increases my productivity a *lot*
- forces you to write better code (once you're indented so much to the
right that the 80 chars limit leads to absurdly formatted code, you know
you need to refactor)
I completely understand there are also drawbacks, but for me personally
they're overridden by the benefits above.
Filip Hráček
https://google.com/+filiphracek

Post by Alec Henninger
You could probably take any code snippet, think long and hard about its
artful indentation, and create a more delightful organization of code than
dartfmt would produce... to you. The value to me is that dartfmt is
completely automated, deterministic, and the results are pretty good for
most people (something humans can also have a hard time with). Consistent
formatting also reduces merge conflicts and diff distractions. I think the
practical benefits make the occasional less than ideal formatting more than
forgivable. The time and stress savings make dartfmt a joy to use if you
(and your team) are able to let go a little on what you may prefer.

Post by Don Olmstead
Definitely give it a go. In my case I don't like the output when it
decides to jam stuff on a single line. If that were to change I'd run all
my code through it.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
Sure; I was going off on a bit of a tangent because stuff in comments
kinda bugs me :)
Based on the discussion here, I'm gonna give the formatter a better go.
I'll leave it set to 80 and see how I get on for a bit. I really haven't
written much Dart (I never got on with any of the editors) so possibly
it'll feel less weird over time.

Post by Don Olmstead
Yes but the code will still end up getting mangled quite a bit by the
formatter.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
Ah cool; thanks for the info - seems like it's just temporary then :)

Post by Don Olmstead
https://chromium.googlesource.com/external/github.com/dart-lang/dev_compiler/+/refs/heads/master/doc/GENERIC_METHODS.md

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I'm confused - is that a first-class Dart thing, or some additional
tool/checker? Using comments for stuff doesn't seem very Dart-like?

Post by Don Olmstead
Generic method syntax.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
That is a bit naff, though I can't but think those weird comments
aren't helping - what are they?
I wonder if they're open to changes to the formatter or if they
consider that making changes would somewhat defeat the idea of all the code
being the same..

Post by Don Olmstead
I do not use dartfmt. I think Bob's done an impressive bit of
engineering with it but its not to the point where I would use it.
It produces some really ugly formatting in a lot of cases for my
code. As an example.
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/>
classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends Metadata>*/(ClassMetadata clazz,
MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
{bool
includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool
includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool
includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz,
includeFields,
includeConstructors,
includeMethods
).where(matcher);
Becomes
Iterable<Metadata/*=T*/ > classMetadataQueryAll/*<T extends
Metadata>*/(
ClassMetadata clazz, MetadataMatchFunction matcher,
{bool includeFields: defaultInclude,
bool includeConstructors: defaultInclude,
bool includeMethods: defaultInclude}) =>
_expandClassMetadata/*<T>*/(
clazz, includeFields, includeConstructors, includeMethods)
.where(matcher);
--
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['Bob Nystrom' via Dart Misc]

Post by Anders Holmgren
Vote 1: Fascist enforcement of code formatting!!

There is no voting in fascism!

– bob

[Anders Holmgren]

You can always vote fascism in you just can't vote it back out ;-)

On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 at 8:34 PM, 'Bob Nystrom' via Dart Misc <

Post by 'Bob Nystrom' via Dart Misc

Post by Anders Holmgren
Vote 1: Fascist enforcement of code formatting!!

There is no voting in fascism!
– bob
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[Weiping Chen]

The only election that I could vote in Communist China, there was only ONE
candidate and a blank for you to write in.

Post by 'Bob Nystrom' via Dart Misc

Post by Anders Holmgren
Vote 1: Fascist enforcement of code formatting!!

There is no voting in fascism!
– bob

[DoHyung Kim]

My team use dart_style with 80 column limit. We do use Dart as our main
language.

Having worked on embedded systems over 10 years, I've tried various coding
conventions and put much effort in manually wrapping lines and aligning
them. I mainly wrote C and Java but almost never used IDEs then (my choice
of editor was vi). But my conclusion was any single convention doesn't make
huge enough difference in readability compared to the others, though I
prefer 80 column limit to longer limits. I found it's far more difficult to
let all team members agree on and committed to single convention.

So after moving to server-side Java, I gave Eclipse's formatter a try and
got to conclude that the output is good enough and I can sacrifice some
formatting excellence for saving time to go into manual formatting, which I
can put into other tasks. Also reading many OSS Java projects, the
formatting specifics haven't too much problem to me.

In Go, its grammatical rule practically prohibits some formatting variant
which was possible in other C-like languages with curly brace. Frankly I
like that level of enforcement. ;)

So I'm happy with dart_style.

I know and admit that there are pros and cons in every approach. But I hope
to say that here is a team which is happy with the way dart_style works.


DoHyung

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I've been running it on some code lately and I can't say I'm a fan... I
think 80 characters is ridiculously short (every method signature seems to
end up wrapped horribly) and code I split across multiple lines for
readability is all being unwrapped.
Here's an example - the code on the left looks much better to me (it looks
even better if we used tabs at 4x space, but meh), especially the method at
the bottom (I don't think it'd look so bad with string.format, but it looks
horrible like this).
So I'm wondering if people are actually using it? If general consensus is
yes, I might make an effort, but otherwise I'm thinking of just ditching it
and going with tabs.
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5B1yVaGvRXc/V6SXjdpZYhI/AAAAAAABGJI/-CSsJ4CO0REZcF0KwvEqu83QeWZ-HPuiwCLcB/s1600/example.png>

[DoHyung Kim]

It seems that I mixed coding convention and finer granular formatting
issues. But my point was that I think even the suboptimal formatting is
good enough to me considering the benefit we have with formatters.

Post by DoHyung Kim
My team use dart_style with 80 column limit. We do use Dart as our main
language.
Having worked on embedded systems over 10 years, I've tried various coding
conventions and put much effort in manually wrapping lines and aligning
them. I mainly wrote C and Java but almost never used IDEs then (my choice
of editor was vi). But my conclusion was any single convention doesn't make
huge enough difference in readability compared to the others, though I
prefer 80 column limit to longer limits. I found it's far more difficult to
let all team members agree on and committed to single convention.
So after moving to server-side Java, I gave Eclipse's formatter a try and
got to conclude that the output is good enough and I can sacrifice some
formatting excellence for saving time to go into manual formatting, which I
can put into other tasks. Also reading many OSS Java projects, the
formatting specifics haven't too much problem to me.
In Go, its grammatical rule practically prohibits some formatting variant
which was possible in other C-like languages with curly brace. Frankly I
like that level of enforcement. ;)
So I'm happy with dart_style.
I know and admit that there are pros and cons in every approach. But I
hope to say that here is a team which is happy with the way dart_style
works.
DoHyung

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I've been running it on some code lately and I can't say I'm a fan... I
think 80 characters is ridiculously short (every method signature seems to
end up wrapped horribly) and code I split across multiple lines for
readability is all being unwrapped.
Here's an example - the code on the left looks much better to me (it
looks even better if we used tabs at 4x space, but meh), especially the
method at the bottom (I don't think it'd look so bad with string.format,
but it looks horrible like this).
So I'm wondering if people are actually using it? If general consensus is
yes, I might make an effort, but otherwise I'm thinking of just ditching it
and going with tabs.
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5B1yVaGvRXc/V6SXjdpZYhI/AAAAAAABGJI/-CSsJ4CO0REZcF0KwvEqu83QeWZ-HPuiwCLcB/s1600/example.png>

[Günter Zöchbauer]

80 chars on modern screens seems ridiculous but if I want to read a file on
GitHub directly without checking the code out locally to open it in my
favorite IDE I'm glad the author didn't use longer lines.

In my IDE it has the advantage, that I can have 2 or 3 files side-by-side
easily.

I wouldn't want to contribute to a Dart project that doesn't use dartfmt.
It's not always perfect but a single keystroke and it's good enough and
consistent across all files of a project and all projects.
Formatting code manually seems like a good way to me to waste time for
nothing.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
I've been running it on some code lately and I can't say I'm a fan... I
think 80 characters is ridiculously short (every method signature seems to
end up wrapped horribly) and code I split across multiple lines for
readability is all being unwrapped.
Here's an example - the code on the left looks much better to me (it looks
even better if we used tabs at 4x space, but meh), especially the method at
the bottom (I don't think it'd look so bad with string.format, but it looks
horrible like this).
So I'm wondering if people are actually using it? If general consensus is
yes, I might make an effort, but otherwise I'm thinking of just ditching it
and going with tabs.
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5B1yVaGvRXc/V6SXjdpZYhI/AAAAAAABGJI/-CSsJ4CO0REZcF0KwvEqu83QeWZ-HPuiwCLcB/s1600/example.png>

[Danny Tuppeny]

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
80 chars on modern screens seems ridiculous but if I want to read a file
on GitHub directly without checking the code out locally to open it in my
favorite IDE I'm glad the author didn't use longer lines.
In my IDE it has the advantage, that I can have 2 or 3 files side-by-side
easily.
I wouldn't want to contribute to a Dart project that doesn't use dartfmt.
It's not always perfect but a single keystroke and it's good enough and
consistent across all files of a project and all projects.

I think I basically agree now, but...


Formatting code manually seems like a good way to me to waste time for

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
nothing.

There is a difference between "formatting to meet some rules" and "typing
it in a way that is readable".

I think it's probably worth using dartfmt but I'm still on the fence about
whether completely ignoring the users preferences is being completely
offset.

That said, I've often wondered why we can't customise formatting more for
the visible document in our IDEs.. Why can't we set our own formatting
rules in the IDE but have the saved file always the dartfmt'd version? Want
braces in the correct places? Fine! Want to indent (correctly ;)) with
tabs? Want all method/ctor signatures on one line? Fine!

I'm not saying there aren't complications; but imagine if dartfmt accepted
dynamic rules and the IDE applies one set during load and another during
save! =)

[Günter Zöchbauer]

Post by Danny Tuppeny

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
80 chars on modern screens seems ridiculous but if I want to read a file
on GitHub directly without checking the code out locally to open it in my
favorite IDE I'm glad the author didn't use longer lines.
In my IDE it has the advantage, that I can have 2 or 3 files side-by-side
easily.
I wouldn't want to contribute to a Dart project that doesn't use dartfmt.
It's not always perfect but a single keystroke and it's good enough and
consistent across all files of a project and all projects.

I think I basically agree now, but...
Formatting code manually seems like a good way to me to waste time for

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
nothing.

There is a difference between "formatting to meet some rules" and "typing
it in a way that is readable".
I think it's probably worth using dartfmt but I'm still on the fence about
whether completely ignoring the users preferences is being completely
offset.
That said, I've often wondered why we can't customise formatting more for
the visible document in our IDEs.. Why can't we set our own formatting
rules in the IDE but have the saved file always the dartfmt'd version? Want
braces in the correct places? Fine! Want to indent (correctly ;)) with
tabs? Want all method/ctor signatures on one line? Fine!
I'm not saying there aren't complications; but imagine if dartfmt accepted
dynamic rules and the IDE applies one set during load and another during
save! =)

That's an interesting idea. I guess version comparisons don't work when
there are such differences even though they are only white spaces.

[Danny Tuppeny]

Post by Danny Tuppeny
That said, I've often wondered why we can't customise formatting more for

Post by Danny Tuppeny
the visible document in our IDEs.. Why can't we set our own formatting
rules in the IDE but have the saved file always the dartfmt'd version? Want
braces in the correct places? Fine! Want to indent (correctly ;)) with
tabs? Want all method/ctor signatures on one line? Fine!
I'm not saying there aren't complications; but imagine if dartfmt
accepted dynamic rules and the IDE applies one set during load and another
during save! =)

That's an interesting idea. I guess version comparisons don't work when
there are such differences even though they are only white spaces.

I guess you would always compare the same (eg. if your IDE is doing the
diff, reformat the version you're comparing to... for an external tool just
compare those on disk which are both the "save formatting").

I'm sure there would be edge cases, but maybe they're solvable. Would be
interesting to see someone attempt it!

[Matan Lurey]

Usually having customizable formatters, especially at Google-scale, is a
recipe for lots of disagreement and differences between projects.

At least internally there is of course lots of personal preferences on how
they wish formatting works, but we've generally agreed having 'dartfmt' as
a standard 1-way to do formatting makes code reviews simpler (no personal
preferences enforced) and allows things like generated code to share the
same formatting.

Post by Danny Tuppeny

Post by Danny Tuppeny
That said, I've often wondered why we can't customise formatting more for

Post by Danny Tuppeny
the visible document in our IDEs.. Why can't we set our own formatting
rules in the IDE but have the saved file always the dartfmt'd version? Want
braces in the correct places? Fine! Want to indent (correctly ;)) with
tabs? Want all method/ctor signatures on one line? Fine!
I'm not saying there aren't complications; but imagine if dartfmt
accepted dynamic rules and the IDE applies one set during load and another
during save! =)

That's an interesting idea. I guess version comparisons don't work when
there are such differences even though they are only white spaces.

I guess you would always compare the same (eg. if your IDE is doing the
diff, reformat the version you're comparing to... for an external tool just
compare those on disk which are both the "save formatting").
I'm sure there would be edge cases, but maybe they're solvable. Would be
interesting to see someone attempt it!
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[Danny Tuppeny]

Post by Matan Lurey
Usually having customizable formatters, especially at Google-scale, is a
recipe for lots of disagreement and differences between projects.
At least internally there is of course lots of personal preferences on how
they wish formatting works, but we've generally agreed having 'dartfmt' as
a standard 1-way to do formatting makes code reviews simpler (no personal
preferences enforced) and allows things like generated code to share the
same formatting.

These last comments weren't about custom formatting for sharing, they were
about the idea of letting the IDE show a *personally* customised
representation to you that is disconnected from what's on the disk :-)

[Anders Holmgren]

IDE show a personally customised representation to you that is

disconnected from what's on the disk :-)

That sounds a bit like personally configurable tab indent size and we know
how that ended ;-)

Post by Matan Lurey
Usually having customizable formatters, especially at Google-scale, is a
recipe for lots of disagreement and differences between projects.
At least internally there is of course lots of personal preferences on
how they wish formatting works, but we've generally agreed having 'dartfmt'
as a standard 1-way to do formatting makes code reviews simpler (no
personal preferences enforced) and allows things like generated code to
share the same formatting.

These last comments weren't about custom formatting for sharing, they were
about the idea of letting the IDE show a *personally* customised
representation to you that is disconnected from what's on the disk :-)
--
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For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
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[Danny Tuppeny]

Post by Danny Tuppeny

IDE show a personally customised representation to you that is

disconnected from what's on the disk :-)
That sounds a bit like personally configurable tab indent size and we know
how that ended ;-)

It works perfectly as far as I'm concerned! If you want 2, 4 or 8,
indenting with tabs you can have it =)

If people are using tabs for alignment though, then that's their own fault
(or actually, in many cases, their IDEs fault for not letting them mix
them)!

But, I think this is totally different. The only issues with tabs (or
spaces) is that people are sharing stuff that's affected by them. My
suggestion here was to totally disconnect what you see on screen from the
file - no matter what your preferences, they wouldn't change the file on
disk at all.

[Don Olmstead]

http://nickgravgaard.com/elastic-tabstops/

Post by Danny Tuppeny

Post by Danny Tuppeny

IDE show a personally customised representation to you that is

disconnected from what's on the disk :-)
That sounds a bit like personally configurable tab indent size and we
know how that ended ;-)

It works perfectly as far as I'm concerned! If you want 2, 4 or 8,
indenting with tabs you can have it =)
If people are using tabs for alignment though, then that's their own fault
(or actually, in many cases, their IDEs fault for not letting them mix
them)!
But, I think this is totally different. The only issues with tabs (or
spaces) is that people are sharing stuff that's affected by them. My
suggestion here was to totally disconnect what you see on screen from the
file - no matter what your preferences, they wouldn't change the file on
disk at all.
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new
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[Thomas Løcke]

My team use dartfmt, with no special options set. It is wonderful not
having to waste time on how the code is supposed to look.

dartfmt = consistency, which becomes increasingly important as the size of
a team/project goes up.

Post by Danny Tuppeny
So I'm wondering if people are actually using it? If general consensus is
yes, I might make an effort, but otherwise I'm thinking of just ditching it
and going with tabs.