[dart-misc] Dart is not only a client side language.

Discussion:

m***@gmail.com

2018-01-24 17:02:32 UTC

Hi,

Iáž¿ very happy with all these new language features,and also the cases
showed at DartConf day 1.
But this new slogan "Dart is a client side language", seems not to be
accurate and not honest with
people that spend their time and energy building Dart server side
frameworks.
Iáž¿ myself not interested in Dart, if Google suddenly says We dont recommend
Dart for server side,or weÅe not
going to implement it in our products(App ENgine and Google CLoud Service).
But please be honest,and before that watch this video.

I detected this server side contempt, some months ago in some Dart team
people,but after this Dartconf I'm really
concerned.

Iáž¿ in the middle of day 1, maybe I change my mind,but really dissapointed
until now.

Marcello

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Jonathan Rezende

2018-01-24 17:33:23 UTC

Permalink

Dart is an isophormic language, that is the base concept of Dart.

Right?

Post by m***@gmail.com
Hi,
Iáž¿ very happy with all these new language features,and also the cases
showed at DartConf day 1.
But this new slogan "Dart is a client side language", seems not to be
accurate and not honest with
people that spend their time and energy building Dart server side
frameworks.
Iáž¿ myself not interested in Dart, if Google suddenly says We dont
recommend Dart for server side,or weÅe not
going to implement it in our products(App ENgine and Google CLoud Service).
But please be honest,and before that watch this video.
http://youtu.be/UqolCJsvD_g
jQShQUJkK5HOgzW-p
I detected this server side contempt, some months ago in some Dart team
people,but after this Dartconf I'm really
concerned.
Iáž¿ in the middle of day 1, maybe I change my mind,but really dissapointed
until now.
Marcello
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Jonathan Rezende

Marcello Dias

2018-01-24 17:36:18 UTC

Permalink

I expect so.
But its not the actual speech.
Have you seen Dartconf 2018 day 1?

Post by Jonathan Rezende
Dart is an isophormic language, that is the base concept of Dart.
Right?

Post by m***@gmail.com
Hi,
Iáž¿ very happy with all these new language features,and also the cases
showed at DartConf day 1.
But this new slogan "Dart is a client side language", seems not to be
accurate and not honest with
people that spend their time and energy building Dart server side
frameworks.
Iáž¿ myself not interested in Dart, if Google suddenly says We dont
recommend Dart for server side,or weÅe not
going to implement it in our products(App ENgine and Google CLoud Service).
But please be honest,and before that watch this video.
http://youtu.be/UqolCJsvD_g
-zEXZ-jQShQUJkK5HOgzW-p
I detected this server side contempt, some months ago in some Dart team
people,but after this Dartconf I'm really
concerned.
Iáž¿ in the middle of day 1, maybe I change my mind,but really dissapointed
until now.
Marcello
--
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Jonathan Rezende

2018-01-24 17:50:33 UTC

Permalink

No. Watching the talks now.
But Dart server side is already ok in my point of view. Yes, we do lack
some database packages but is not so far from being excellent.
You can create a pretty powerful REST API with Dart and even it is not fast
as other languages, with stateless you can horizontally scale it and you
are ok to run, I think.
However, the client side is far away from an excellence level. Today is
very difficult for me to sell Dart in the company I work. They didn't even
hear about Flutter.
That is why I think they are aiming client side, because server side is ok.

(but we do need some better database packages!!!!!!)

Post by Marcello Dias
I expect so.
But its not the actual speech.
Have you seen Dartconf 2018 day 1?

Post by Jonathan Rezende
Dart is an isophormic language, that is the base concept of Dart.
Right?

Post by m***@gmail.com
Hi,
Iáž¿ very happy with all these new language features,and also the cases
showed at DartConf day 1.
But this new slogan "Dart is a client side language", seems not to be
accurate and not honest with
people that spend their time and energy building Dart server side
frameworks.
Iáž¿ myself not interested in Dart, if Google suddenly says We dont
recommend Dart for server side,or weÅe not
going to implement it in our products(App ENgine and Google CLoud Service).
But please be honest,and before that watch this video.
http://youtu.be/UqolCJsvD_g
-zEXZ-jQShQUJkK5HOgzW-p
I detected this server side contempt, some months ago in some Dart team
people,but after this Dartconf I'm really
concerned.
Iáž¿ in the middle of day 1, maybe I change my mind,but really
dissapointed until now.
Marcello
--
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To file a bug report or feature request, go to
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Matan Lurey

2018-01-24 17:54:32 UTC

Permalink

This is a passionate topic, so please if folks want to discuss keep the
tone respectful and calm, otherwise we'll have to intervene.

That being said, we don't expect to put much focus on server-side Dart in
the short or mid-term (at least, from Google).

There are a number of critical command-line tools and servers that are
maintained and supported and very important:
* Analysis server
* Observatory and VM Service
* Common front-end itself
* Dart2JS and DartDevC are both CLI applications
* DartDoc
* The pub.dartlang.org website

And of course from the community there is Aqueduct, Jaguar, Angel, and
simpler ones like Shelf.

Dart as a language will focus on being the *best* client-side language.
That doesn't mean servers will stop working, it just means we won't invest
much in this area.

Thanks!

~ Matan

Post by Jonathan Rezende
No. Watching the talks now.
But Dart server side is already ok in my point of view. Yes, we do lack
some database packages but is not so far from being excellent.
You can create a pretty powerful REST API with Dart and even it is not
fast as other languages, with stateless you can horizontally scale it and
you are ok to run, I think.
However, the client side is far away from an excellence level. Today is
very difficult for me to sell Dart in the company I work. They didn't even
hear about Flutter.
That is why I think they are aiming client side, because server side is ok.
(but we do need some better database packages!!!!!!)

Post by Marcello Dias
I expect so.
But its not the actual speech.
Have you seen Dartconf 2018 day 1?

Post by Jonathan Rezende
Dart is an isophormic language, that is the base concept of Dart.
Right?

Post by m***@gmail.com
Hi,
Iáž¿ very happy with all these new language features,and also the cases
showed at DartConf day 1.
But this new slogan "Dart is a client side language", seems not to be
accurate and not honest with
people that spend their time and energy building Dart server side
frameworks.
Iáž¿ myself not interested in Dart, if Google suddenly says We dont
recommend Dart for server side,or weÅe not
going to implement it in our products(App ENgine and Google CLoud Service).
But please be honest,and before that watch this video.
http://youtu.be/UqolCJsvD_g
I detected this server side contempt, some months ago in some Dart team
people,but after this Dartconf I'm really
concerned.
Iáž¿ in the middle of day 1, maybe I change my mind,but really
dissapointed until now.
Marcello
--
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To file a bug report or feature request, go to
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m***@gmail.com

2018-01-24 18:57:56 UTC

Permalink

Thinks like these were said more than one time.
Just attachin one of them.

m***@gmail.com

2018-01-24 20:22:09 UTC

Permalink

Well, It seems one of my messages were deleted.
After being responded by a Google Dart team,but it seems that
Dart wont go to App Engine or Google cloud Sql any time soon.
Really sorry for those who in 2014 believed in the given video, and made
their plans.
It scores one point for the famous " I donT care about of I have said in
the past image" that Google
have with the developers community.
But Google itself don't burn money ,and they might change this
scary plan any time soon.
Dart just don make any sense without being isomorphic, and was the main
reason that many think of adopting
it in the past.
But again I congratulate for the new features, I myself were one of those
that said in the past that GOogle should give
more atention for the UI, I just tought at that time that GOogle was big
enough to do it ,and not brake their already written
in the stone promisses.

Marcello

Istvan Soos

2018-01-24 22:45:35 UTC

Permalink

Marcello,

Google is not a singleton, all-containing mind, where everybody
follows a central mandate. Teams in Google are highly independent and
they may not even know about the other team's plans, only after a
product is released.

I think the best way to lobby for a change is to open issues for the
respected product, and describe why you want to use Dart in them. If
you share the issue links here, others may help you boost that signal.

Btw. for me, the slide you've linked ("Dart: a language for
client-side development") is simply a statement that Dart is good (the
best) *for* client-side development (vs. the alternative languages).
However, you paint it like Dart was *only* client-side, which I think
was not the case.

Cheers,
Istvan

Post by m***@gmail.com
Well, It seems one of my messages were deleted.
After being responded by a Google Dart team,but it seems that
Dart wont go to App Engine or Google cloud Sql any time soon.
Really sorry for those who in 2014 believed in the given video, and made
their plans.
It scores one point for the famous " I donT care about of I have said in the
past image" that Google
have with the developers community.
But Google itself don't burn money ,and they might change this
scary plan any time soon.
Dart just don make any sense without being isomorphic, and was the main
reason that many think of adopting
it in the past.
But again I congratulate for the new features, I myself were one of those
that said in the past that GOogle should give
more atention for the UI, I just tought at that time that GOogle was big
enough to do it ,and not brake their already written
in the stone promisses.
Marcello
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Dennis Kaselow

2018-01-24 23:01:52 UTC

Permalink

If it makes you somewhat less concerned, the VM guy (Vyacheslav Egorov)
encourages you to run Dart on the server:

Post by Istvan Soos
Marcello,
Google is not a singleton, all-containing mind, where everybody
follows a central mandate. Teams in Google are highly independent and
they may not even know about the other team's plans, only after a
product is released.
I think the best way to lobby for a change is to open issues for the
respected product, and describe why you want to use Dart in them. If
you share the issue links here, others may help you boost that signal.
Btw. for me, the slide you've linked ("Dart: a language for
client-side development") is simply a statement that Dart is good (the
best) *for* client-side development (vs. the alternative languages).
However, you paint it like Dart was *only* client-side, which I think
was not the case.
Cheers,
Istvan

the

Post by m***@gmail.com
past image" that Google
have with the developers community.
But Google itself don't burn money ,and they might change this
scary plan any time soon.
Dart just don make any sense without being isomorphic, and was the main
reason that many think of adopting
it in the past.
But again I congratulate for the new features, I myself were one of those
that said in the past that GOogle should give
more atention for the UI, I just tought at that time that GOogle was big
enough to do it ,and not brake their already written
in the stone promisses.
Marcello
--
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For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to

http://www.dartbug.com/new

Post by m***@gmail.com
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m***@gmail.com

2018-01-25 00:06:45 UTC

Permalink

Em quarta-feira, 24 de janeiro de 2018 21:01:58 UTC-2, Dennis Kaselow

Post by Dennis Kaselow
If it makes you somewhat less concerned, the VM guy (Vyacheslav Egorov)
http://youtu.be/Sk9ZMIQDpUg
Well this was exaclty the 5 seconds I was talking about

"In case youÅe using Dart in the Server, wich I encourage you to do"
Not much for a DartCOnf, not enough for someone who is having its first
contact with the language,but enough
to keep the faith.

Thanks

Marcello Dias

2018-01-24 23:16:08 UTC

Permalink

Istvan.

Throughout the speachs, This was clearly stated,Dart is a language for
client side development,
It is not only this slide.
I think I have listened the word Server ,just one time in the first day.
The mere fact that Google is not going to put any energy on the server for
me is dissapointing, in 2018
there is not even a roadmap for them to be available in any Google Services.
I really thought it was related to everything being on hold before 2.0, but
now there is a big question mark in my head?
If this was my first contact with the language, I would really think that
Dart is only for client Side development,
Iáž¿ not saying that Dart is the best or the worst language for it,but being
isomorphic like the guy proudly said in 2014,
do not seem to make difference anymore, and at least in my opinion, is
still one of the biggest advantages of Dart
when comparing to JavaScript and TypeScript frameworks.
Were there any talk about Dart Server, side that Iáž¿ not aware, in DartConf?
I know that many Google developers even contribute with Dart Aqueduct in
the past.
I know that Dart wont stop running in the server, because some Dartisans
think we should use Go instead,but
being mainstream is a key thing to find jobs, and introduce Dart in new
projects,and advertising Dart as just another
"best client side tool" wont help.
Iáž¿ Really help to hear from the community , those that are using Dart
server side in production, that Dart is stable
and fast enough, but would really appreciate to have heard that in Dartconf.

Marcello

the

http://www.dartbug.com/new

Post by m***@gmail.com
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m***@gmail.com

2018-01-25 02:30:15 UTC

Permalink

Some years ago, Dart team was commited to write the best isomorphic
language.
Now,everybody can see the point?

<Loading Image...

Jonathan Rezende

2018-01-25 12:32:41 UTC

Permalink

Yeah, I understand your point of view.
And also agree with you partially.
Dart can not loose the quality of being isophormic.
In fact, I use Dart only because of that. If it wasn't, I would probably be
developing in react.
But the idea that I can develop one language in any platform is so
attractive, and well, I am doing it right now.
I do not intend to use googlecloud or google sql, maybe that is why I don't
feel so angry as you. I get a little disappointed with the mongo database
package, but that is it for me right now.
I don't think you should loose hope on Dart =]

Post by m***@gmail.com
Some years ago, Dart team was commited to write the best isomorphic
language.
Now,everybody can see the point?
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-smQRbw6MbwQ/WmlBAVUL6gI/AAAAAAAAACY/b9-px5Fk9yAA2wJDq7xXIHtN7425brwuwCLcBGAs/s1600/Captura%2Bde%2Btela%2Bde%2B2018-01-25%2B00-23-18.png>
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Marcello Dias

2018-01-25 12:44:19 UTC

Permalink

For a multi billionaire company like Google, being isomorphic may not be a
killer feature.
They probably have 300 hundred GO programmers, 900 hundred Dart ones,that
publish
their APIS,and probably they even don'T know each other, or live in the
same country.
The cost of production is so irrelevant compared to the profits, that it
does not also matter too much.
But for small to midsized companies its just a "Se ne qua non " feature,
something that Soren Gjesse seems to understand in his video.

Post by Jonathan Rezende
Yeah, I understand your point of view.
And also agree with you partially.
Dart can not loose the quality of being isophormic.
In fact, I use Dart only because of that. If it wasn't, I would probably
be developing in react.
But the idea that I can develop one language in any platform is so
attractive, and well, I am doing it right now.
I do not intend to use googlecloud or google sql, maybe that is why I
don't feel so angry as you. I get a little disappointed with the mongo
database package, but that is it for me right now.
I don't think you should loose hope on Dart =]

m***@gmail.com

2018-01-25 11:10:18 UTC

Permalink

I can't even get surprised with Google anymore, and the bad thing, I was
advised..
It changes its mind so frequently,that its not a new thing.
Imagine how is still.io with their Polymer application, I really hope they
have used Polymer.js.
Sometimes for good reasons,like being strong typed, what it should ever be.
Of course, they wont admit it openly, but it does not seem that Google will
move a leaf to make Dart a success
in the Server side.
If Go does it well, Why care?
I might be wrong, But I don expect Dart on Google CLoud Sql in the next
decade, unless they change their minds.
Developers like certainty, one words that stays until tomorrow.
If Dart was a MOzzilla or Microsoft Child it would probably be in the top
10 by now.
Google really believes in the concept of OPen Source, the Code is there on
GitHub, if Marcello cares he can continue
on developing Polymer.Dart.or implement Dart on Google Cloud Sql himself.
I really like Dart,its syntax, its architecture, and it "concept of being
Isomorphic".
But its really hard to advocate for Google, when people say: Are you insane
of using a Google Language?
People are using ANgular even though it is from Google, SO it might be very
good.

Sean McCleary

2018-01-26 14:55:21 UTC

Permalink

FWIW, while dart isn't a first-class GAE language, you can use it on Google
Cloud.

Google Cloud services make discovery documents available. There are tools
to generate Dart code from discovery documents. (I think there is even
already-generated dart code available for Google APIs.)

I'm using it on Google Cloud. While a nice, native dart SDK would be
lovely (sometimes the discovery doc-generated code can be a bit awkward,
verbose, boilerplatish) it's really not a big deal. It works fine and is
easy to use.

Sean

Post by m***@gmail.com
I can't even get surprised with Google anymore, and the bad thing, I was
advised..
It changes its mind so frequently,that its not a new thing.
Imagine how is still.io with their Polymer application, I really hope
they have used Polymer.js.
Sometimes for good reasons,like being strong typed, what it should ever be.
Of course, they wont admit it openly, but it does not seem that Google
will move a leaf to make Dart a success
in the Server side.
If Go does it well, Why care?
I might be wrong, But I don expect Dart on Google CLoud Sql in the next
decade, unless they change their minds.
Developers like certainty, one words that stays until tomorrow.
If Dart was a MOzzilla or Microsoft Child it would probably be in the top
10 by now.
Google really believes in the concept of OPen Source, the Code is there
on GitHub, if Marcello cares he can continue
on developing Polymer.Dart.or implement Dart on Google Cloud Sql himself.
I really like Dart,its syntax, its architecture, and it "concept of being
Isomorphic".
This is not to insult anybody.
I just think that the new Dart team belongs to that school of thinking
that there is not such a thing like a perfect language,
that you make compromises to specialize a language for client side, that
won be good for Server,and vice versa.
Since nobody said it clearly,but Iáž¿ free to take my own conclusions.
It seems that many of them think it was an error to spent time on the
server side,since Dart is a client side specialized language.
Hope to hear good news on this sense, but not very hopeful about that.
But its really hard to advocate for Google, when people say: Are you
insane of using a Google Language?
People are using ANgular even though it is from Google, SO it might be
very good.

Marcello Dias

2018-01-26 16:20:06 UTC

Permalink

Thanks for the info.

Marcello

Post by Sean McCleary
FWIW, while dart isn't a first-class GAE language, you can use it on
Google Cloud.
Google Cloud services make discovery documents available. There are tools
to generate Dart code from discovery documents. (I think there is even
already-generated dart code available for Google APIs.)
I'm using it on Google Cloud. While a nice, native dart SDK would be
lovely (sometimes the discovery doc-generated code can be a bit awkward,
verbose, boilerplatish) it's really not a big deal. It works fine and is
easy to use.
Sean

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m***@gmail.com

2018-01-25 13:56:02 UTC

Permalink

But see,If it is really the case, then it should be honestely said in the
projects first page.
Today I really don know what is Dart is about, imagine someone wich is
getting to know Dart.

<Loading Image...

>

<Loading Image...

Vadim Tsushko

2018-01-25 17:11:57 UTC

Permalink

I'm doing some work on server side and web side dart basically from the moment of dart announcement and to this very moment. Today dart is a primary platform in our company on both sides.
Keeping marketing part aside (I'm not an avid listener of keynotes) I see that server side dart is improving steadily. Better SSL support, consolidation of web and server side websocket and http API, new import syntax for supporting libraries targeting several platforms and so on.
Just the one fact from Leaf Peterson presentation about switching to i64 integer in dart 2.0 in my opinion could mean much more for dart server side then any absent hypothetical reveranses to the dart server side in his speach.

m***@gmail.com

2018-01-27 23:02:33 UTC

Permalink

Well,

Google newsgroups is dead.
Everything is happening here.
https://gitter.im/dart-lang/TALK-general
Well, People of stable Kernel said there were some talks about aqueduct
that were note streamed.
But it seems I was not the only one dissaponted in the way server side is
being runned at Dart.
Lets wait and see.

Marcello

m***@gmail.com

2018-02-01 10:10:47 UTC

Permalink

Marcello Dias

2018-02-01 13:29:21 UTC

Permalink

Excuse me, Kasper Peulen, I hate when people misspell my name.

All those thing would be still achievable if Google put more people,have
several teams,
Dart team Server,Dart Team bla.bla,bla.
Of course,Dart 2.0 could be a water divisor,but that wont happen.
The question is,Google changed their mind abut Dart, its a fact, as an
email I receveid from the someone from DT,
its a completely different project, with different goals.
Their mantra today is focus,but the word credibility is what drives
adoption.
Wiser technologies have more users,and more used in enterprise
applications,those that interest to me.
Google could keep focus on several areas if it wanted.
See, I was adivised, I gave my face for punching.
https://yakovfain.com/2013/08/02/how-serious-is-google-about-dart/
See the Marcello Dias saying, well they had reasons to drop GWT,everybody
does that,it had problems, it was me.
What was the reason for droping Polymer.Dart,nobody really knows, POlymer
is alive kicking and getting better every day.
Fortunatelly I dont have code,just lost my credibility as an adviser with
some companies.
https://yakovfain.com/2013/08/02/how-serious-is-google-about-dart/
Its like a snow bawl,today Iáž¿ more an adviser about Google reputation,than
a Lawyer.
Google is a collection of startups,not a monolitic view company,but theyÅe
very good at the technical side,Dart in my opinion
is the best language ever written(if there is such a thing),but its from
Google,use it on your own risk,like Polymer
wich is the best javascript language, or flutter wich is really cool stuff.
I really like cool, state of the art stuff, that why I still keep watching
Google .
But now even deleting my messages theyÅe(At least I think so,I replied
someone in Gitter
that was deleted or suffered for some kind of bug),that never happend in
Google before, the word democracy was really important,
everybody was free to state what they think about whatever.
I have received the yellow card,Iáž¿ too acid.
Have I lied,or offended someone in this thread?
I regret on advance.
Would let this thread die,just answering about Kasper Paulen point of view,
Marcello

I think this comes from the idea that the Dart Team is trying to be good
in *too* *many* things.
- Make a great language that pleases both dynamic and static lovers
- Have great standard libraries included
- Make Dart run great as a command line tool, on Linux, OSX and Windows
- Make Dart run great on the server
- Make Dart run great in the browser natively, and way faster than
javascript
- Make Dart run great compiled to javascript
- Make sure that Dart can interop easily with existing javascript library
- Make a great analyzer that catches any error while you are typing
- Make a great linter that helps you be consistent
- Make a great html library that abstract many browser inconsistencies
away
- Make a great web framework
- Make a great editor
- Make a great online playground
- Make a great language formatter
- Make a great package manager
- Make a great documentation library that automatically document any Dart
library
- Document all of the tools above, so that people can actually learn how
to use it
I guess the Dart team was blinded by ambition and excitement, because
looking back at it,
it is very clear that you need a team 2 or 3 times as big as the Dart
team is to be truly great on all of those things listed above.
So during the years, Dart dropped some of those goals. And many of those
goals it has failed. (I mean failed to be truly great in it).
I think the idea now is, let's focus on less things, but try to be truly
great in the things that we are focussing on.
It seems like a smart move. And flutter is probably the first things the
Dart team is doing, where it can not only expectations that people have,
but also exceed those expectations and do something truly outstanding.
Met vriendelijke groet, Kasper Peulen

Post by m***@gmail.com
http://youtu.be/o9DPc2AF_zY
OU2XLYxmsIIJr3vjxggY7yGcGO7i9BK5
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Marcello Dias

2018-02-01 13:30:55 UTC

Permalink

Polymer is the best javascript Library,sorry.

Post by Marcello Dias
Excuse me, Kasper Peulen, I hate when people misspell my name.

All those thing would be still achievable if Google put more people,have
several teams,
Dart team Server,Dart Team bla.bla,bla.
Of course,Dart 2.0 could be a water divisor,but that wont happen.
The question is,Google changed their mind abut Dart, its a fact, as an
email I receveid from the someone from DT,
its a completely different project, with different goals.
Their mantra today is focus,but the word credibility is what drives
adoption.
Wiser technologies have more users,and more used in enterprise
applications,those that interest to me.
Google could keep focus on several areas if it wanted.
See, I was adivised, I gave my face for punching.
https://yakovfain.com/2013/08/02/how-serious-is-google-about-dart/
See the Marcello Dias saying, well they had reasons to drop GWT,everybody
does that,it had problems, it was me.
What was the reason for droping Polymer.Dart,nobody really knows, POlymer
is alive kicking and getting better every day.
Fortunatelly I dont have code,just lost my credibility as an adviser with
some companies.
https://yakovfain.com/2013/08/02/how-serious-is-google-about-dart/
Its like a snow bawl,today Iáž¿ more an adviser about Google
reputation,than a Lawyer.
Google is a collection of startups,not a monolitic view company,but
theyÅe very good at the technical side,Dart in my opinion
is the best language ever written(if there is such a thing),but its from
Google,use it on your own risk,like Polymer
wich is the best javascript language, or flutter wich is really cool stuff.
I really like cool, state of the art stuff, that why I still keep
watching Google .
But now even deleting my messages theyÅe(At least I think so,I replied
someone in Gitter
that was deleted or suffered for some kind of bug),that never happend in
Google before, the word democracy was really important,
everybody was free to state what they think about whatever.
I have received the yellow card,Iáž¿ too acid.
Have I lied,or offended someone in this thread?
I regret on advance.
Would let this thread die,just answering about Kasper Paulen point of view,
Marcello

I think this comes from the idea that the Dart Team is trying to be good
in *too* *many* things.
- Make a great language that pleases both dynamic and static lovers
- Have great standard libraries included
- Make Dart run great as a command line tool, on Linux, OSX and Windows
- Make Dart run great on the server
- Make Dart run great in the browser natively, and way faster than
javascript
- Make Dart run great compiled to javascript
- Make sure that Dart can interop easily with existing javascript library
- Make a great analyzer that catches any error while you are typing
- Make a great linter that helps you be consistent
- Make a great html library that abstract many browser inconsistencies
away
- Make a great web framework
- Make a great editor
- Make a great online playground
- Make a great language formatter
- Make a great package manager
- Make a great documentation library that automatically document any
Dart library
- Document all of the tools above, so that people can actually learn how
to use it
I guess the Dart team was blinded by ambition and excitement, because
looking back at it,
it is very clear that you need a team 2 or 3 times as big as the Dart
team is to be truly great on all of those things listed above.
So during the years, Dart dropped some of those goals. And many of those
goals it has failed. (I mean failed to be truly great in it).
I think the idea now is, let's focus on less things, but try to be truly
great in the things that we are focussing on.
It seems like a smart move. And flutter is probably the first things the
Dart team is doing, where it can not only expectations that people have,
but also exceed those expectations and do something truly outstanding.
Met vriendelijke groet, Kasper Peulen

--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new
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'Kevin Moore' via Dart Misc

2018-02-01 19:02:29 UTC

Permalink

This discussion has gone a bit off the rails. Locking it down....

Post by Marcello Dias
Polymer is the best javascript Library,sorry.

Post by Marcello Dias
Excuse me, Kasper Peulen, I hate when people misspell my name.

All those thing would be still achievable if Google put more people,have
several teams,
Dart team Server,Dart Team bla.bla,bla.
Of course,Dart 2.0 could be a water divisor,but that wont happen.
The question is,Google changed their mind abut Dart, its a fact, as an
email I receveid from the someone from DT,
its a completely different project, with different goals.
Their mantra today is focus,but the word credibility is what drives
adoption.
Wiser technologies have more users,and more used in enterprise
applications,those that interest to me.
Google could keep focus on several areas if it wanted.
See, I was adivised, I gave my face for punching.
https://yakovfain.com/2013/08/02/how-serious-is-google-about-dart/
See the Marcello Dias saying, well they had reasons to drop
GWT,everybody does that,it had problems, it was me.
What was the reason for droping Polymer.Dart,nobody really knows,
POlymer is alive kicking and getting better every day.
Fortunatelly I dont have code,just lost my credibility as an adviser
with some companies.
https://yakovfain.com/2013/08/02/how-serious-is-google-about-dart/
Its like a snow bawl,today Iáž¿ more an adviser about Google
reputation,than a Lawyer.
Google is a collection of startups,not a monolitic view company,but
theyÅe very good at the technical side,Dart in my opinion
is the best language ever written(if there is such a thing),but its from
Google,use it on your own risk,like Polymer
wich is the best javascript language, or flutter wich is really cool stuff.
I really like cool, state of the art stuff, that why I still keep
watching Google .
But now even deleting my messages theyÅe(At least I think so,I replied
someone in Gitter
that was deleted or suffered for some kind of bug),that never happend in
Google before, the word democracy was really important,
everybody was free to state what they think about whatever.
I have received the yellow card,Iáž¿ too acid.
Have I lied,or offended someone in this thread?
I regret on advance.
Would let this thread die,just answering about Kasper Paulen point of view,
Marcello

I think this comes from the idea that the Dart Team is trying to be
good in *too* *many* things.
- Make a great language that pleases both dynamic and static lovers
- Have great standard libraries included
- Make Dart run great as a command line tool, on Linux, OSX and Windows
- Make Dart run great on the server
- Make Dart run great in the browser natively, and way faster than
javascript
- Make Dart run great compiled to javascript
- Make sure that Dart can interop easily with existing javascript library
- Make a great analyzer that catches any error while you are typing
- Make a great linter that helps you be consistent
- Make a great html library that abstract many browser inconsistencies
away
- Make a great web framework
- Make a great editor
- Make a great online playground
- Make a great language formatter
- Make a great package manager
- Make a great documentation library that automatically document any
Dart library
- Document all of the tools above, so that people can actually learn
how to use it
I guess the Dart team was blinded by ambition and excitement, because
looking back at it,
it is very clear that you need a team 2 or 3 times as big as the Dart
team is to be truly great on all of those things listed above.
So during the years, Dart dropped some of those goals. And many of
those goals it has failed. (I mean failed to be truly great in it).
I think the idea now is, let's focus on less things, but try to be
truly great in the things that we are focussing on.
It seems like a smart move. And flutter is probably the first things
the Dart team is doing, where it can not only expectations that people
have,
but also exceed those expectations and do something truly outstanding.
Met vriendelijke groet, Kasper Peulen

Post by m***@gmail.com
http://youtu.be/o9DPc2AF_zY
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For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new
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For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
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