[dart-misc] Component Library choice and When to incorporate?

[SwarmShepherd]

Hi All,

This is not a technical post, I'm hoping for general (and understandable)
discussion of the state of things for Dart-Polymer components waiting in
the wings...

Just spent 1 1/2 intense days in another "HTML crack" where one really
must/should have lots of experience with HTML/CSS *OR* be maybe use one
of those shiny Component Libraries like the DartAPI pages do - including
"BootJack". I see that these very components are being ported and worked
on for Dart-Polymer.

So far my learning experience with Dart-Polymer and trying to use only
standard (simple & unadorned) is* mixed .* But I am learning a lot so I am
not really terribly unhappy - sometimes I get amazing things done in 1/2
hour. And sometimes I fall between the cracks and lose a day and more
trying to do some little thing like actually fetch the data from a
multi-selection "listbox". I don't know what I don't know, logically
enough, so have been searching and often try to use "JS"y tricks with
Dart-Polymer this way and that only to have it not work.

*Project Particulars:* We have a very "Ajaxy" set of 12 or so components
using WebSockets and that has functioning well for a week. So far I have
been able, with the help of SO twice, been able to get a full screen of
fairly well interwoven components to dance together as I hoped. But there
is a need for a log-in, for a set of related "entry scope" options, a test
page, and a "help page" and scrolling between seems unnatural, and this
seems the perfect job for a set of at the top of each page "horizontal
tabs".

*Last Big "Crack": *The data from all the pages are really one natural
bundle. So having 4-5 separate pages and linking just makes little sense.
Fairly early into researching "Tabs" I realized this is not dealt with
(again) in HTML the in structured way that I know to use. I read somewhere
that one can just use Buttons and make them pretty. I learned about
scrolling, "visible"/"hidden" attributes so after a few hours an idea for a
strategy started forming :) and that was about 14 hours before I had it
actually "fully functional".

*The Particular Problem: *was that my nice "button set" was being
reproduced 4 times, so I needed 4 Polymer Components and each was getting
pretty bulky. (For hours I had a "button set" that told me perfectly right
where I was, but was always off for my current screen". It took, for me, a
lot of trial and error to get a solution.

*MyStory conclusion*: This stuff is for the bleeding edge type - HTML /
Polymer /Dart Ninja warrior & experts! Somebody wanting to "just
concentrate on the application" will find themselves climbing walls again
and again - imho.

*Discussion:* I picked up from Guenter here that he just ported "Tabs" to
Dart-Polymer from somewhere but hasn't actually used. I chased down his
code and studied long enough to think the risk of overhead/compatibility
and such issues was not worth it - at least IF I could get my silly row of
buttons to function. But this is the Specific case, and I'm trying to
think where things are in general. My strategy is turning out to be this:
Keep my UI code as simple as possible and beat my head against the walls
as necessary to avoid the use of any 3rd party library UNTIL this stuff has
been fairly well tested, has become stable, and there's at least some kind
of organized documentation.

*A few concrete questions:*

- When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML / Polymer"
experts only period be likely to last?
- Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?
- Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be used in
the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What kind of
overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)




Sorry for such a wordy posting, I'm probably, hopefully, at a point now
where I only need to add general simple HTML components and the existing
simple model of one component one class with all my other stuff that has
evolved
should get the job done.... but I never know, and perhaps this can help
others.

Thanks,

_george

[Joao Pedrosa]

Hi,

Great to see your progress so far. I am watching Polymer from the
sidelines, but I have my opinion of it too. Why not? :-)

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML / Polymer"

experts only period be likely to last?

I think the knowledge base regarding Polymer will have to increase to the
point that it becoming popular is not an issue any longer. The problem is
that Polymer may look more like a framework than a library, which may scare
away potential users until they cannot ignore it any more. Think of Polymer
as a super library that's as close to a framework as it gets, but still has
great affinity with the web. Maybe if companies like Adobe made authoring
tools using Polymer it would make it popular overnight. Anything is
possible.

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?

I think some of the Polymer work comes from work on new web standards. So
in a way Polymer is "experimental", it's for "dog-fooding" some of those
standards. I just took a look at some Polymer repositories on Github and
while I could notice a good level of development activity, it was just a
few people making the somewhat daily commits. For the most part, most users
are fine with the old web standards.

But Polymer seems to have many users as their mailing lists show.

Polymer seems to be an answer to the impossibility of browsers and web
standards of creating all the possible components that people could need.
Polymer gives users both new components and the tools with which to create
those components while trying to maintain a great affinity with the web.
It's not always easy though.

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be used in

the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What kind of
overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)

I don't know anything about BootJack, sorry.

BTW, like for so many new components, a Tab control is very unusual on the
web. When we break with some web traditions, browsers may have a problem
coping with the changes.

One way to create a tab control is by having the tab panels hidden away to
the left of the window with a negative absolute positioning of say -10000.
While bringing back the active panel by setting their correct parent
element and positioning.

On the web it can be problematic for multiple components to occupy the same
window area overlapping one another. That could mess up the way events are
dispatched to them and so on. So sending them away off-screen could help to
control that.

Given that Polymer tries to stay true to the web standards, a lot of the
work needed for components without Polymer will still be necessary with
Polymer components. With Polymer apparently users can extend existing
components and give them new features that way, without having to first
create a wrapper for them. That seems promising. But how framework-y is all
of that compared to say a library? :-)

Also some Polymer standards seem rather verbose, say the naming convention
for components: they need to have two names separated by hyphen.

I have used or tried to use many libraries before. YUI, Dojo, etc. Polymer
seems to be an effort to make those libraries redundant or at least make
them to share a common base so they can use components of one another.
Polymer also introduces new standards. We can only wish Polymer the best of
luck!

Keep up the good work!

Cheers,
Joao

Post by SwarmShepherd
Hi All,
This is not a technical post, I'm hoping for general (and understandable)
discussion of the state of things for Dart-Polymer components waiting in
the wings...
Just spent 1 1/2 intense days in another "HTML crack" where one really
must/should have lots of experience with HTML/CSS *OR* be maybe use one
of those shiny Component Libraries like the DartAPI pages do - including
"BootJack". I see that these very components are being ported and worked
on for Dart-Polymer.
So far my learning experience with Dart-Polymer and trying to use only
standard (simple & unadorned) is* mixed .* But I am learning a lot so I
am not really terribly unhappy - sometimes I get amazing things done in 1/2
hour. And sometimes I fall between the cracks and lose a day and more
trying to do some little thing like actually fetch the data from a
multi-selection "listbox". I don't know what I don't know, logically
enough, so have been searching and often try to use "JS"y tricks with
Dart-Polymer this way and that only to have it not work.
*Project Particulars:* We have a very "Ajaxy" set of 12 or so components
using WebSockets and that has functioning well for a week. So far I have
been able, with the help of SO twice, been able to get a full screen of
fairly well interwoven components to dance together as I hoped. But there
is a need for a log-in, for a set of related "entry scope" options, a test
page, and a "help page" and scrolling between seems unnatural, and this
seems the perfect job for a set of at the top of each page "horizontal
tabs".
*Last Big "Crack": *The data from all the pages are really one natural
bundle. So having 4-5 separate pages and linking just makes little sense.
Fairly early into researching "Tabs" I realized this is not dealt with
(again) in HTML the in structured way that I know to use. I read somewhere
that one can just use Buttons and make them pretty. I learned about
scrolling, "visible"/"hidden" attributes so after a few hours an idea for a
strategy started forming :) and that was about 14 hours before I had it
actually "fully functional".
*The Particular Problem: *was that my nice "button set" was being
reproduced 4 times, so I needed 4 Polymer Components and each was getting
pretty bulky. (For hours I had a "button set" that told me perfectly right
where I was, but was always off for my current screen". It took, for me, a
lot of trial and error to get a solution.
*MyStory conclusion*: This stuff is for the bleeding edge type - HTML /
Polymer /Dart Ninja warrior & experts! Somebody wanting to "just
concentrate on the application" will find themselves climbing walls again
and again - imho.
*Discussion:* I picked up from Guenter here that he just ported "Tabs"
to Dart-Polymer from somewhere but hasn't actually used. I chased down his
code and studied long enough to think the risk of overhead/compatibility
and such issues was not worth it - at least IF I could get my silly row of
buttons to function. But this is the Specific case, and I'm trying to
Keep my UI code as simple as possible and beat my head against the walls
as necessary to avoid the use of any 3rd party library UNTIL this stuff has
been fairly well tested, has become stable, and there's at least some kind
of organized documentation.
*A few concrete questions:*
- When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML /
Polymer" experts only period be likely to last?
- Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?
- Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be used
in the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What kind
of overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)
Sorry for such a wordy posting, I'm probably, hopefully, at a point now
where I only need to add general simple HTML components and the existing
simple model of one component one class with all my other stuff that has
evolved
should get the job done.... but I never know, and perhaps this can help
others.
Thanks,
_george
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

[George Koller]

Thanks Joao,

Is anybody (else) really using *Dart-Polymer + HTML only* for non-trivial
Apps at this point? I'm still not clear about this.

My concrete idea is that the Dart folks might consider putting a special
section in the Dart-Polymer documentation for "HTML holes" and give
examples of how these "HTML holes" can be filled with strict/best
practices *Dart-Polymer-HTML
only* manner. (Guenter is doing this piecemeal over on SO - he's addressed
3-4 of my problems alone, but only in the context of the question - which
likely is just a unrecognizable part of the real problem. So I'm not sure
how useful SO can be, and there are hundreds of JQuery/ JS, browser issues
and such cluttering up search responses.)

*There must be some two dozen or so of these "HTML holes" that need to get
filled in one way or another to build any kind of Web-App. * My best guess.

I'd just like to suggest that anybody trying to do non-trivial client-side
"App" programming using strictly HTML5 + Dart-Polymer is likely to fall
into a few of these "HTML Holes". So far, thinking more on this, I've
fallen into 5 and we're only approaching1/2 done.

Maybe this is not a problem because only HTML experts need apply?

Anyway, I think these "HTML holes" taken together are time consuming
potential "deal breakers" and the perhaps have the potential to become a
bigger deal if not addressed one way or another soon. Or maybe these "HTML
holes" are expected to go away when that set of shiny new components is
released. That's a real possibility, but being able to deal with the "HTML
holes" may be the only viable option for a significant period of time, and
may continue to makes sense for some of us, for one reason or another, even
after such components are released.

So my idea is that Dart-Polymer documentation might include a special
section for dealing with these "HTML holes" in a strict/proper
Dart-Polymer-HTML only manner.

So far I can offer up my "Dart-Polymer-HTML" holes somewhat in order of
difficulty:

1. How to implement useful tabs and multi-pages
2. How to get the result of multiples of Options from a Selection
3. How to get a textBox to stay scrolled to the bottom (if you think this
should be an obvious textArea attribute I agree, if you think it is - you
are wrong...)

Then, I'm just guessing here, but maybe:
4. How to gain program control of the polymer element initialization
sequence
5. Preferred solutions and issues for sharing/using a "data commons" class
(between PolymerElement objects).
6. Controlling "flow" between PolymerElement Objects (and dealing with the
Asynchronous issues using Futures?)


I needed to clear this off my stack somehow.

_george

Post by Joao Pedrosa
Hi,
Great to see your progress so far. I am watching Polymer from the
sidelines, but I have my opinion of it too. Why not? :-)

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML / Polymer"

experts only period be likely to last?
I think the knowledge base regarding Polymer will have to increase to the
point that it becoming popular is not an issue any longer. The problem is
that Polymer may look more like a framework than a library, which may scare
away potential users until they cannot ignore it any more. Think of Polymer
as a super library that's as close to a framework as it gets, but still has
great affinity with the web. Maybe if companies like Adobe made authoring
tools using Polymer it would make it popular overnight. Anything is
possible.

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?

I think some of the Polymer work comes from work on new web standards. So
in a way Polymer is "experimental", it's for "dog-fooding" some of those
standards. I just took a look at some Polymer repositories on Github and
while I could notice a good level of development activity, it was just a
few people making the somewhat daily commits. For the most part, most users
are fine with the old web standards.
But Polymer seems to have many users as their mailing lists show.
Polymer seems to be an answer to the impossibility of browsers and web
standards of creating all the possible components that people could need.
Polymer gives users both new components and the tools with which to create
those components while trying to maintain a great affinity with the web.
It's not always easy though.

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be used in

the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What kind of
overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)
I don't know anything about BootJack, sorry.
BTW, like for so many new components, a Tab control is very unusual on the
web. When we break with some web traditions, browsers may have a problem
coping with the changes.
One way to create a tab control is by having the tab panels hidden away to
the left of the window with a negative absolute positioning of say -10000.
While bringing back the active panel by setting their correct parent
element and positioning.
On the web it can be problematic for multiple components to occupy the
same window area overlapping one another. That could mess up the way events
are dispatched to them and so on. So sending them away off-screen could
help to control that.
Given that Polymer tries to stay true to the web standards, a lot of the
work needed for components without Polymer will still be necessary with
Polymer components. With Polymer apparently users can extend existing
components and give them new features that way, without having to first
create a wrapper for them. That seems promising. But how framework-y is all
of that compared to say a library? :-)
Also some Polymer standards seem rather verbose, say the naming convention
for components: they need to have two names separated by hyphen.
I have used or tried to use many libraries before. YUI, Dojo, etc. Polymer
seems to be an effort to make those libraries redundant or at least make
them to share a common base so they can use components of one another.
Polymer also introduces new standards. We can only wish Polymer the best of
luck!
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Joao

Post by SwarmShepherd
Hi All,
This is not a technical post, I'm hoping for general (and understandable)
discussion of the state of things for Dart-Polymer components waiting in
the wings...
Just spent 1 1/2 intense days in another "HTML crack" where one really
must/should have lots of experience with HTML/CSS *OR* be maybe use one
of those shiny Component Libraries like the DartAPI pages do - including
"BootJack". I see that these very components are being ported and worked
on for Dart-Polymer.
So far my learning experience with Dart-Polymer and trying to use only
standard (simple & unadorned) is* mixed .* But I am learning a lot so I
am not really terribly unhappy - sometimes I get amazing things done in 1/2
hour. And sometimes I fall between the cracks and lose a day and more
trying to do some little thing like actually fetch the data from a
multi-selection "listbox". I don't know what I don't know, logically
enough, so have been searching and often try to use "JS"y tricks with
Dart-Polymer this way and that only to have it not work.
*Project Particulars:* We have a very "Ajaxy" set of 12 or so
components using WebSockets and that has functioning well for a week. So
far I have been able, with the help of SO twice, been able to get a full
screen of fairly well interwoven components to dance together as I hoped.
But there is a need for a log-in, for a set of related "entry scope"
options, a test page, and a "help page" and scrolling between seems
unnatural, and this seems the perfect job for a set of at the top of each
page "horizontal tabs".
*Last Big "Crack": *The data from all the pages are really one natural
bundle. So having 4-5 separate pages and linking just makes little sense.
Fairly early into researching "Tabs" I realized this is not dealt with
(again) in HTML the in structured way that I know to use. I read somewhere
that one can just use Buttons and make them pretty. I learned about
scrolling, "visible"/"hidden" attributes so after a few hours an idea for a
strategy started forming :) and that was about 14 hours before I had it
actually "fully functional".
*The Particular Problem: *was that my nice "button set" was being
reproduced 4 times, so I needed 4 Polymer Components and each was getting
pretty bulky. (For hours I had a "button set" that told me perfectly right
where I was, but was always off for my current screen". It took, for me, a
lot of trial and error to get a solution.
*MyStory conclusion*: This stuff is for the bleeding edge type - HTML /
Polymer /Dart Ninja warrior & experts! Somebody wanting to "just
concentrate on the application" will find themselves climbing walls again
and again - imho.
*Discussion:* I picked up from Guenter here that he just ported "Tabs"
to Dart-Polymer from somewhere but hasn't actually used. I chased down his
code and studied long enough to think the risk of overhead/compatibility
and such issues was not worth it - at least IF I could get my silly row of
buttons to function. But this is the Specific case, and I'm trying to
Keep my UI code as simple as possible and beat my head against the walls
as necessary to avoid the use of any 3rd party library UNTIL this stuff has
been fairly well tested, has become stable, and there's at least some kind
of organized documentation.
*A few concrete questions:*
- When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML /
Polymer" experts only period be likely to last?
- Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?
- Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be used
in the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What kind
of overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)
Sorry for such a wordy posting, I'm probably, hopefully, at a point now
where I only need to add general simple HTML components and the existing
simple model of one component one class with all my other stuff that has
evolved
should get the job done.... but I never know, and perhaps this can help
others.
Thanks,
_george
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new

[Günter Zöchbauer]

Hi!
Me again ;-)

Because Polymer is still work in progress, building rich elements on top of
Polymer is difficult.
In addition all has to be rebuilt from ground up because Polymer works
differently then existing elements.
I mention only ShadowDOM which renders all existing CSS frameworks like
Bootstrap useless.
We all have yet to learn new approaches that make good use of the new
possibilities.

To your points

1) There is a working example from Anders for tabs
here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22122280
I think I found the bug that caused some troubles (but didn't get feedback
yet).
He posted a very compact but complete workable example.

http://pub.dartlang.org/packages/html_components seems to be an interesting
project in that direction too.
Maybe it has some components that are more according to your taste (didn't
take a closer look myself yet)

2) polymer-selector makes a list of any elements multi-selectable
You could give it a try

3) I don't think this is anything Dart can fix.
If the browsers don't offer that functionality work-arounds in Dart can
only reach so far.

4) Why would you need this?
It should be predictable and have some callbacks to include custom behavior
at some points.
Polymer hast this already but it is still work in progress and changing.

5) That worked fine for me so far.
What are your requirements?

6) Not sure if there are generic solutions possible.
async/futures have big advantages in single-threaded environments
but nothing comes for free ...

Cheers
GÃŒnter

Post by George Koller
Thanks Joao,
Is anybody (else) really using *Dart-Polymer + HTML only* for
non-trivial Apps at this point? I'm still not clear about this.
My concrete idea is that the Dart folks might consider putting a special
section in the Dart-Polymer documentation for "HTML holes" and give
examples of how these "HTML holes" can be filled with strict/best practices *Dart-Polymer-HTML
only* manner. (Guenter is doing this piecemeal over on SO - he's
addressed 3-4 of my problems alone, but only in the context of the question
- which likely is just a unrecognizable part of the real problem. So I'm
not sure how useful SO can be, and there are hundreds of JQuery/ JS,
browser issues and such cluttering up search responses.)
*There must be some two dozen or so of these "HTML holes" that need to get
filled in one way or another to build any kind of Web-App. * My best guess.
I'd just like to suggest that anybody trying to do non-trivial client-side
"App" programming using strictly HTML5 + Dart-Polymer is likely to fall
into a few of these "HTML Holes". So far, thinking more on this, I've
fallen into 5 and we're only approaching1/2 done.
Maybe this is not a problem because only HTML experts need apply?
Anyway, I think these "HTML holes" taken together are time consuming
potential "deal breakers" and the perhaps have the potential to become a
bigger deal if not addressed one way or another soon. Or maybe these "HTML
holes" are expected to go away when that set of shiny new components is
released. That's a real possibility, but being able to deal with the "HTML
holes" may be the only viable option for a significant period of time, and
may continue to makes sense for some of us, for one reason or another, even
after such components are released.
So my idea is that Dart-Polymer documentation might include a special
section for dealing with these "HTML holes" in a strict/proper
Dart-Polymer-HTML only manner.
So far I can offer up my "Dart-Polymer-HTML" holes somewhat in order of
1. How to implement useful tabs and multi-pages
2. How to get the result of multiples of Options from a Selection
3. How to get a textBox to stay scrolled to the bottom (if you think this
should be an obvious textArea attribute I agree, if you think it is - you
are wrong...)
4. How to gain program control of the polymer element initialization
sequence
5. Preferred solutions and issues for sharing/using a "data commons"
class (between PolymerElement objects).
6. Controlling "flow" between PolymerElement Objects (and dealing with
the Asynchronous issues using Futures?)
I needed to clear this off my stack somehow.
_george

Post by Joao Pedrosa
Hi,
Great to see your progress so far. I am watching Polymer from the
sidelines, but I have my opinion of it too. Why not? :-)

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML / Polymer"

experts only period be likely to last?
I think the knowledge base regarding Polymer will have to increase to the
point that it becoming popular is not an issue any longer. The problem is
that Polymer may look more like a framework than a library, which may scare
away potential users until they cannot ignore it any more. Think of Polymer
as a super library that's as close to a framework as it gets, but still has
great affinity with the web. Maybe if companies like Adobe made authoring
tools using Polymer it would make it popular overnight. Anything is
possible.

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?

I think some of the Polymer work comes from work on new web standards. So
in a way Polymer is "experimental", it's for "dog-fooding" some of those
standards. I just took a look at some Polymer repositories on Github and
while I could notice a good level of development activity, it was just a
few people making the somewhat daily commits. For the most part, most users
are fine with the old web standards.
But Polymer seems to have many users as their mailing lists show.
Polymer seems to be an answer to the impossibility of browsers and web
standards of creating all the possible components that people could need.
Polymer gives users both new components and the tools with which to create
those components while trying to maintain a great affinity with the web.
It's not always easy though.

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be used in

the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What kind of
overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)
I don't know anything about BootJack, sorry.
BTW, like for so many new components, a Tab control is very unusual on
the web. When we break with some web traditions, browsers may have a
problem coping with the changes.
One way to create a tab control is by having the tab panels hidden away
to the left of the window with a negative absolute positioning of say
-10000. While bringing back the active panel by setting their correct
parent element and positioning.
On the web it can be problematic for multiple components to occupy the
same window area overlapping one another. That could mess up the way events
are dispatched to them and so on. So sending them away off-screen could
help to control that.
Given that Polymer tries to stay true to the web standards, a lot of the
work needed for components without Polymer will still be necessary with
Polymer components. With Polymer apparently users can extend existing
components and give them new features that way, without having to first
create a wrapper for them. That seems promising. But how framework-y is all
of that compared to say a library? :-)
Also some Polymer standards seem rather verbose, say the naming
convention for components: they need to have two names separated by hyphen.
I have used or tried to use many libraries before. YUI, Dojo, etc.
Polymer seems to be an effort to make those libraries redundant or at least
make them to share a common base so they can use components of one another.
Polymer also introduces new standards. We can only wish Polymer the best of
luck!
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Joao

Post by SwarmShepherd
Hi All,
This is not a technical post, I'm hoping for general (and
understandable) discussion of the state of things for Dart-Polymer
components waiting in the wings...
Just spent 1 1/2 intense days in another "HTML crack" where one really
must/should have lots of experience with HTML/CSS *OR* be maybe use one
of those shiny Component Libraries like the DartAPI pages do - including
"BootJack". I see that these very components are being ported and worked
on for Dart-Polymer.
So far my learning experience with Dart-Polymer and trying to use only
standard (simple & unadorned) is* mixed .* But I am learning a lot so
I am not really terribly unhappy - sometimes I get amazing things done in
1/2 hour. And sometimes I fall between the cracks and lose a day and more
trying to do some little thing like actually fetch the data from a
multi-selection "listbox". I don't know what I don't know, logically
enough, so have been searching and often try to use "JS"y tricks with
Dart-Polymer this way and that only to have it not work.
*Project Particulars:* We have a very "Ajaxy" set of 12 or so
components using WebSockets and that has functioning well for a week. So
far I have been able, with the help of SO twice, been able to get a full
screen of fairly well interwoven components to dance together as I hoped.
But there is a need for a log-in, for a set of related "entry scope"
options, a test page, and a "help page" and scrolling between seems
unnatural, and this seems the perfect job for a set of at the top of each
page "horizontal tabs".
*Last Big "Crack": *The data from all the pages are really one natural
bundle. So having 4-5 separate pages and linking just makes little sense.
Fairly early into researching "Tabs" I realized this is not dealt with
(again) in HTML the in structured way that I know to use. I read somewhere
that one can just use Buttons and make them pretty. I learned about
scrolling, "visible"/"hidden" attributes so after a few hours an idea for a
strategy started forming :) and that was about 14 hours before I had it
actually "fully functional".
*The Particular Problem: *was that my nice "button set" was being
reproduced 4 times, so I needed 4 Polymer Components and each was getting
pretty bulky. (For hours I had a "button set" that told me perfectly right
where I was, but was always off for my current screen". It took, for me, a
lot of trial and error to get a solution.
*MyStory conclusion*: This stuff is for the bleeding edge type - HTML /
Polymer /Dart Ninja warrior & experts! Somebody wanting to "just
concentrate on the application" will find themselves climbing walls again
and again - imho.
*Discussion:* I picked up from Guenter here that he just ported
"Tabs" to Dart-Polymer from somewhere but hasn't actually used. I chased
down his code and studied long enough to think the risk of
overhead/compatibility and such issues was not worth it - at least IF I
could get my silly row of buttons to function. But this is the Specific
case, and I'm trying to think where things are in general. My strategy is
turning out to be this: Keep my UI code as simple as possible and beat my
head against the walls as necessary to avoid the use of any 3rd party
library UNTIL this stuff has been fairly well tested, has become stable,
and there's at least some kind of organized documentation.
*A few concrete questions:*
- When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML /
Polymer" experts only period be likely to last?
- Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?
- Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be used
in the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What kind
of overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)
Sorry for such a wordy posting, I'm probably, hopefully, at a point now
where I only need to add general simple HTML components and the existing
simple model of one component one class with all my other stuff that has
evolved
should get the job done.... but I never know, and perhaps this can help
others.
Thanks,
_george
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new

[George Koller]

Guenter (meine SchutzEngel!),

I'm in Polymer-Component Nirvana!

I am visiting Component Nirvana for Polymerists! - Use in
Dartium<http://szgabsz91.github.io/html-components/index.html>

NOT in regular chrome (v 32) which shows nothing, BUT in Dartium

and I'm seeing *the beautiful code of my Dreams [?]*!

I have died and gone to component Heaven with working examples!

Watch out world - my 90's looking UI stuff is getting stepped up.

(I have to seriously consider whether to update at this exact time, I'm
thinking I'll just use the Alert Box with that ominous message to sober up
my client on how powerful and beautiful all this stuff is going to be!)

I'm not sure how I missed this although I'm not in the habit yet of browsing
around the real-web in Dartium.

Is Gabor Szabo a Google employee? If not, seriously, I'd be totally
*enthusiastic* about donating to this site for ongoing expansion and
upkeep. I don't say that often. However it is so important to have A
Central place for actually playing with/viewing/and keeping up with this
stuff, and this stuff will get out of date Soooo Easily if one person is
donating time - I can sense how much work and dedication it takes to build
and maintain such a site.

In my humble opinion, this is singular moment for Web Development - sure it
works and looks great as many packages do* BUT behind that is real OO
Structure and all the power that comes with it.... this is almost scary!*

(BTW the tab code is about 1/4 of my bulky fumbling ugly effort - which
makes sense because a lot of experience and expertise is embedded in those
objects.)

Thanks Again Guenter!

_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
Hi!
Me again ;-)
Because Polymer is still work in progress, building rich elements on top
of Polymer is difficult.
In addition all has to be rebuilt from ground up because Polymer works
differently then existing elements.
I mention only ShadowDOM which renders all existing CSS frameworks like
Bootstrap useless.
We all have yet to learn new approaches that make good use of the new
possibilities.
To your points
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22122280
I think I found the bug that caused some troubles (but didn't get feedback
yet).
He posted a very compact but complete workable example.
http://pub.dartlang.org/packages/html_components seems to be an
interesting project in that direction too.
Maybe it has some components that are more according to your taste (didn't
take a closer look myself yet)
2) polymer-selector makes a list of any elements multi-selectable
You could give it a try
3) I don't think this is anything Dart can fix.
If the browsers don't offer that functionality work-arounds in Dart can
only reach so far.
4) Why would you need this?
It should be predictable and have some callbacks to include custom
behavior at some points.
Polymer hast this already but it is still work in progress and changing.
5) That worked fine for me so far.
What are your requirements?
6) Not sure if there are generic solutions possible.
async/futures have big advantages in single-threaded environments
but nothing comes for free ...
Cheers
Günter

Post by George Koller
Thanks Joao,
Is anybody (else) really using *Dart-Polymer + HTML only* for
non-trivial Apps at this point? I'm still not clear about this.
My concrete idea is that the Dart folks might consider putting a special
section in the Dart-Polymer documentation for "HTML holes" and give
examples of how these "HTML holes" can be filled with strict/best practices *Dart-Polymer-HTML
only* manner. (Guenter is doing this piecemeal over on SO - he's
addressed 3-4 of my problems alone, but only in the context of the question
- which likely is just a unrecognizable part of the real problem. So I'm
not sure how useful SO can be, and there are hundreds of JQuery/ JS,
browser issues and such cluttering up search responses.)
*There must be some two dozen or so of these "HTML holes" that need to
get filled in one way or another to build any kind of Web-App. * My best
guess.
I'd just like to suggest that anybody trying to do non-trivial
client-side "App" programming using strictly HTML5 + Dart-Polymer is likely
to fall into a few of these "HTML Holes". So far, thinking more on this,
I've fallen into 5 and we're only approaching1/2 done.
Maybe this is not a problem because only HTML experts need apply?
Anyway, I think these "HTML holes" taken together are time consuming
potential "deal breakers" and the perhaps have the potential to become a
bigger deal if not addressed one way or another soon. Or maybe these "HTML
holes" are expected to go away when that set of shiny new components is
released. That's a real possibility, but being able to deal with the "HTML
holes" may be the only viable option for a significant period of time, and
may continue to makes sense for some of us, for one reason or another, even
after such components are released.
So my idea is that Dart-Polymer documentation might include a special
section for dealing with these "HTML holes" in a strict/proper
Dart-Polymer-HTML only manner.
So far I can offer up my "Dart-Polymer-HTML" holes somewhat in order of
1. How to implement useful tabs and multi-pages
2. How to get the result of multiples of Options from a Selection
3. How to get a textBox to stay scrolled to the bottom (if you think
this should be an obvious textArea attribute I agree, if you think it is -
you are wrong...)
4. How to gain program control of the polymer element initialization
sequence
5. Preferred solutions and issues for sharing/using a "data commons"
class (between PolymerElement objects).
6. Controlling "flow" between PolymerElement Objects (and dealing with
the Asynchronous issues using Futures?)
I needed to clear this off my stack somehow.
_george

Post by Joao Pedrosa
Hi,
Great to see your progress so far. I am watching Polymer from the
sidelines, but I have my opinion of it too. Why not? :-)

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML /

Polymer" experts only period be likely to last?
I think the knowledge base regarding Polymer will have to increase to
the point that it becoming popular is not an issue any longer. The problem
is that Polymer may look more like a framework than a library, which may
scare away potential users until they cannot ignore it any more. Think of
Polymer as a super library that's as close to a framework as it gets, but
still has great affinity with the web. Maybe if companies like Adobe made
authoring tools using Polymer it would make it popular overnight. Anything
is possible.

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?

I think some of the Polymer work comes from work on new web standards.
So in a way Polymer is "experimental", it's for "dog-fooding" some of those
standards. I just took a look at some Polymer repositories on Github and
while I could notice a good level of development activity, it was just a
few people making the somewhat daily commits. For the most part, most users
are fine with the old web standards.
But Polymer seems to have many users as their mailing lists show.
Polymer seems to be an answer to the impossibility of browsers and web
standards of creating all the possible components that people could need.
Polymer gives users both new components and the tools with which to create
those components while trying to maintain a great affinity with the web.
It's not always easy though.

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be used in

the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What kind of
overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)
I don't know anything about BootJack, sorry.
BTW, like for so many new components, a Tab control is very unusual on
the web. When we break with some web traditions, browsers may have a
problem coping with the changes.
One way to create a tab control is by having the tab panels hidden away
to the left of the window with a negative absolute positioning of say
-10000. While bringing back the active panel by setting their correct
parent element and positioning.
On the web it can be problematic for multiple components to occupy the
same window area overlapping one another. That could mess up the way events
are dispatched to them and so on. So sending them away off-screen could
help to control that.
Given that Polymer tries to stay true to the web standards, a lot of the
work needed for components without Polymer will still be necessary with
Polymer components. With Polymer apparently users can extend existing
components and give them new features that way, without having to first
create a wrapper for them. That seems promising. But how framework-y is all
of that compared to say a library? :-)
Also some Polymer standards seem rather verbose, say the naming
convention for components: they need to have two names separated by hyphen.
I have used or tried to use many libraries before. YUI, Dojo, etc.
Polymer seems to be an effort to make those libraries redundant or at least
make them to share a common base so they can use components of one another.
Polymer also introduces new standards. We can only wish Polymer the best of
luck!
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Joao

Post by SwarmShepherd
Hi All,
This is not a technical post, I'm hoping for general (and
understandable) discussion of the state of things for Dart-Polymer
components waiting in the wings...
Just spent 1 1/2 intense days in another "HTML crack" where one really
must/should have lots of experience with HTML/CSS *OR* be maybe use one
of those shiny Component Libraries like the DartAPI pages do - including
"BootJack". I see that these very components are being ported and worked
on for Dart-Polymer.
So far my learning experience with Dart-Polymer and trying to use only
standard (simple & unadorned) is* mixed .* But I am learning a lot so
I am not really terribly unhappy - sometimes I get amazing things done in
1/2 hour. And sometimes I fall between the cracks and lose a day and more
trying to do some little thing like actually fetch the data from a
multi-selection "listbox". I don't know what I don't know, logically
enough, so have been searching and often try to use "JS"y tricks with
Dart-Polymer this way and that only to have it not work.
*Project Particulars:* We have a very "Ajaxy" set of 12 or so
components using WebSockets and that has functioning well for a week. So
far I have been able, with the help of SO twice, been able to get a full
screen of fairly well interwoven components to dance together as I hoped.
But there is a need for a log-in, for a set of related "entry scope"
options, a test page, and a "help page" and scrolling between seems
unnatural, and this seems the perfect job for a set of at the top of each
page "horizontal tabs".
*Last Big "Crack": *The data from all the pages are really one
natural bundle. So having 4-5 separate pages and linking just makes little
sense. Fairly early into researching "Tabs" I realized this is not dealt
with (again) in HTML the in structured way that I know to use. I read
somewhere that one can just use Buttons and make them pretty. I learned
about scrolling, "visible"/"hidden" attributes so after a few hours an idea
for a strategy started forming :) and that was about 14 hours before I had
it actually "fully functional".
*The Particular Problem: *was that my nice "button set" was being
reproduced 4 times, so I needed 4 Polymer Components and each was getting
pretty bulky. (For hours I had a "button set" that told me perfectly right
where I was, but was always off for my current screen". It took, for me, a
lot of trial and error to get a solution.
*MyStory conclusion*: This stuff is for the bleeding edge type - HTML
/ Polymer /Dart Ninja warrior & experts! Somebody wanting to "just
concentrate on the application" will find themselves climbing walls again
and again - imho.
*Discussion:* I picked up from Guenter here that he just ported
"Tabs" to Dart-Polymer from somewhere but hasn't actually used. I chased
down his code and studied long enough to think the risk of
overhead/compatibility and such issues was not worth it - at least IF I
could get my silly row of buttons to function. But this is the Specific
case, and I'm trying to think where things are in general. My strategy is
turning out to be this: Keep my UI code as simple as possible and beat my
head against the walls as necessary to avoid the use of any 3rd party
library UNTIL this stuff has been fairly well tested, has become stable,
and there's at least some kind of organized documentation.
*A few concrete questions:*
- When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML /
Polymer" experts only period be likely to last?
- Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?
- Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be
used in the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What
kind of overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)
Sorry for such a wordy posting, I'm probably, hopefully, at a point now
where I only need to add general simple HTML components and the existing
simple model of one component one class with all my other stuff that has
evolved
should get the job done.... but I never know, and perhaps this can
help others.
Thanks,
_george
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new

--

For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new

[Günter Zöchbauer]

I created an issue https://github.com/szgabsz91/html-components/issues/9

Post by George Koller
Guenter (meine SchutzEngel!),
I'm in Polymer-Component Nirvana!
I am visiting Component Nirvana for Polymerists! - Use in Dartium<http://szgabsz91.github.io/html-components/index.html>
NOT in regular chrome (v 32) which shows nothing, BUT in Dartium
and I'm seeing *the beautiful code of my Dreams *!
I have died and gone to component Heaven with working examples!
Watch out world - my 90's looking UI stuff is getting stepped up.
(I have to seriously consider whether to update at this exact time, I'm
thinking I'll just use the Alert Box with that ominous message to sober up
my client on how powerful and beautiful all this stuff is going to be!)
I'm not sure how I missed this although I'm not in the habit yet of browsing
around the real-web in Dartium.
Is Gabor Szabo a Google employee? If not, seriously, I'd be totally
*enthusiastic* about donating to this site for ongoing expansion and
upkeep. I don't say that often. However it is so important to have A
Central place for actually playing with/viewing/and keeping up with this
stuff, and this stuff will get out of date Soooo Easily if one person is
donating time - I can sense how much work and dedication it takes to build
and maintain such a site.
In my humble opinion, this is singular moment for Web Development - sure
it works and looks great as many packages do* BUT behind that is real OO
Structure and all the power that comes with it.... this is almost scary!*
(BTW the tab code is about 1/4 of my bulky fumbling ugly effort - which
makes sense because a lot of experience and expertise is embedded in those
objects.)
Thanks Again Guenter!
_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
Hi!
Me again ;-)
Because Polymer is still work in progress, building rich elements on top
of Polymer is difficult.
In addition all has to be rebuilt from ground up because Polymer works
differently then existing elements.
I mention only ShadowDOM which renders all existing CSS frameworks like
Bootstrap useless.
We all have yet to learn new approaches that make good use of the new
possibilities.
To your points
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22122280
I think I found the bug that caused some troubles (but didn't get
feedback yet).
He posted a very compact but complete workable example.
http://pub.dartlang.org/packages/html_components seems to be an
interesting project in that direction too.
Maybe it has some components that are more according to your taste
(didn't take a closer look myself yet)
2) polymer-selector makes a list of any elements multi-selectable
You could give it a try
3) I don't think this is anything Dart can fix.
If the browsers don't offer that functionality work-arounds in Dart can
only reach so far.
4) Why would you need this?
It should be predictable and have some callbacks to include custom
behavior at some points.
Polymer hast this already but it is still work in progress and changing.
5) That worked fine for me so far.
What are your requirements?
6) Not sure if there are generic solutions possible.
async/futures have big advantages in single-threaded environments
but nothing comes for free ...
Cheers
GÃŒnter

Post by George Koller
Thanks Joao,
Is anybody (else) really using *Dart-Polymer + HTML only* for
non-trivial Apps at this point? I'm still not clear about this.
My concrete idea is that the Dart folks might consider putting a special
section in the Dart-Polymer documentation for "HTML holes" and give
examples of how these "HTML holes" can be filled with strict/best practices *Dart-Polymer-HTML
only* manner. (Guenter is doing this piecemeal over on SO - he's
addressed 3-4 of my problems alone, but only in the context of the question
- which likely is just a unrecognizable part of the real problem. So I'm
not sure how useful SO can be, and there are hundreds of JQuery/ JS,
browser issues and such cluttering up search responses.)
*There must be some two dozen or so of these "HTML holes" that need to
get filled in one way or another to build any kind of Web-App. * My
best guess.
I'd just like to suggest that anybody trying to do non-trivial
client-side "App" programming using strictly HTML5 + Dart-Polymer is likely
to fall into a few of these "HTML Holes". So far, thinking more on this,
I've fallen into 5 and we're only approaching1/2 done.
Maybe this is not a problem because only HTML experts need apply?
Anyway, I think these "HTML holes" taken together are time consuming
potential "deal breakers" and the perhaps have the potential to become a
bigger deal if not addressed one way or another soon. Or maybe these "HTML
holes" are expected to go away when that set of shiny new components is
released. That's a real possibility, but being able to deal with the "HTML
holes" may be the only viable option for a significant period of time, and
may continue to makes sense for some of us, for one reason or another, even
after such components are released.
So my idea is that Dart-Polymer documentation might include a special
section for dealing with these "HTML holes" in a strict/proper
Dart-Polymer-HTML only manner.
So far I can offer up my "Dart-Polymer-HTML" holes somewhat in order of
1. How to implement useful tabs and multi-pages
2. How to get the result of multiples of Options from a Selection
3. How to get a textBox to stay scrolled to the bottom (if you think
this should be an obvious textArea attribute I agree, if you think it is -
you are wrong...)
4. How to gain program control of the polymer element initialization
sequence
5. Preferred solutions and issues for sharing/using a "data commons"
class (between PolymerElement objects).
6. Controlling "flow" between PolymerElement Objects (and dealing with
the Asynchronous issues using Futures?)
I needed to clear this off my stack somehow.
_george

Post by Joao Pedrosa
Hi,
Great to see your progress so far. I am watching Polymer from the
sidelines, but I have my opinion of it too. Why not? :-)

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML /

Polymer" experts only period be likely to last?
I think the knowledge base regarding Polymer will have to increase to
the point that it becoming popular is not an issue any longer. The problem
is that Polymer may look more like a framework than a library, which may
scare away potential users until they cannot ignore it any more. Think of
Polymer as a super library that's as close to a framework as it gets, but
still has great affinity with the web. Maybe if companies like Adobe made
authoring tools using Polymer it would make it popular overnight. Anything
is possible.

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?

I think some of the Polymer work comes from work on new web standards.
So in a way Polymer is "experimental", it's for "dog-fooding" some of those
standards. I just took a look at some Polymer repositories on Github and
while I could notice a good level of development activity, it was just a
few people making the somewhat daily commits. For the most part, most users
are fine with the old web standards.
But Polymer seems to have many users as their mailing lists show.
Polymer seems to be an answer to the impossibility of browsers and web
standards of creating all the possible components that people could need.
Polymer gives users both new components and the tools with which to create
those components while trying to maintain a great affinity with the web.
It's not always easy though.

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be used

in the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What kind
of overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)
I don't know anything about BootJack, sorry.
BTW, like for so many new components, a Tab control is very unusual on
the web. When we break with some web traditions, browsers may have a
problem coping with the changes.
One way to create a tab control is by having the tab panels hidden away
to the left of the window with a negative absolute positioning of say
-10000. While bringing back the active panel by setting their correct
parent element and positioning.
On the web it can be problematic for multiple components to occupy the
same window area overlapping one another. That could mess up the way events
are dispatched to them and so on. So sending them away off-screen could
help to control that.
Given that Polymer tries to stay true to the web standards, a lot of
the work needed for components without Polymer will still be necessary with
Polymer components. With Polymer apparently users can extend existing
components and give them new features that way, without having to first
create a wrapper for them. That seems promising. But how framework-y is all
of that compared to say a library? :-)
Also some Polymer standards seem rather verbose, say the naming
convention for components: they need to have two names separated by hyphen.
I have used or tried to use many libraries before. YUI, Dojo, etc.
Polymer seems to be an effort to make those libraries redundant or at least
make them to share a common base so they can use components of one another.
Polymer also introduces new standards. We can only wish Polymer the best of
luck!
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Joao

Post by SwarmShepherd
Hi All,
This is not a technical post, I'm hoping for general (and
understandable) discussion of the state of things for Dart-Polymer
components waiting in the wings...
Just spent 1 1/2 intense days in another "HTML crack" where one really
must/should have lots of experience with HTML/CSS *OR* be maybe use one
of those shiny Component Libraries like the DartAPI pages do - including
"BootJack". I see that these very components are being ported and worked
on for Dart-Polymer.
So far my learning experience with Dart-Polymer and trying to use only
standard (simple & unadorned) is* mixed .* But I am learning a lot
so I am not really terribly unhappy - sometimes I get amazing things done
in 1/2 hour. And sometimes I fall between the cracks and lose a day and
more trying to do some little thing like actually fetch the data from a
multi-selection "listbox". I don't know what I don't know, logically
enough, so have been searching and often try to use "JS"y tricks with
Dart-Polymer this way and that only to have it not work.
*Project Particulars:* We have a very "Ajaxy" set of 12 or so
components using WebSockets and that has functioning well for a week. So
far I have been able, with the help of SO twice, been able to get a full
screen of fairly well interwoven components to dance together as I hoped.
But there is a need for a log-in, for a set of related "entry scope"
options, a test page, and a "help page" and scrolling between seems
unnatural, and this seems the perfect job for a set of at the top of each
page "horizontal tabs".
*Last Big "Crack": *The data from all the pages are really one
natural bundle. So having 4-5 separate pages and linking just makes little
sense. Fairly early into researching "Tabs" I realized this is not dealt
with (again) in HTML the in structured way that I know to use. I read
somewhere that one can just use Buttons and make them pretty. I learned
about scrolling, "visible"/"hidden" attributes so after a few hours an idea
for a strategy started forming :) and that was about 14 hours before I had
it actually "fully functional".
*The Particular Problem: *was that my nice "button set" was being
reproduced 4 times, so I needed 4 Polymer Components and each was getting
pretty bulky. (For hours I had a "button set" that told me perfectly right
where I was, but was always off for my current screen". It took, for me, a
lot of trial and error to get a solution.
*MyStory conclusion*: This stuff is for the bleeding edge type - HTML
/ Polymer /Dart Ninja warrior & experts! Somebody wanting to "just
concentrate on the application" will find themselves climbing walls again
and again - imho.
*Discussion:* I picked up from Guenter here that he just ported
"Tabs" to Dart-Polymer from somewhere but hasn't actually used. I chased
down his code and studied long enough to think the risk of
overhead/compatibility and such issues was not worth it - at least IF I
could get my silly row of buttons to function. But this is the Specific
case, and I'm trying to think where things are in general. My strategy is
turning out to be this: Keep my UI code as simple as possible and beat my
head against the walls as necessary to avoid the use of any 3rd party
library UNTIL this stuff has been fairly well tested, has become stable,
and there's at least some kind of organized documentation.
*A few concrete questions:*
- When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML /
Polymer" experts only period be likely to last?
- Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?
- Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be
used in the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What
kind of overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)
Sorry for such a wordy posting, I'm probably, hopefully, at a point
now where I only need to add general simple HTML components and the
existing simple model of one component one class with all my other stuff
that has evolved
should get the job done.... but I never know, and perhaps this can
help others.
Thanks,
_george
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new

--

For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new

[George Koller]

Shhh! I'm reading my new "PrimeFaces beginner guide" (from the cloud -
instantly - way to get docs - because that's also how quickly they get out
of date.)

Ja, Gabor says something to the effect that one must view in Dartium
because of some issue he's aware of - I only just saw that - elsewhere he
seems to say that it should work in Chrome but I've updated to the latest I
could find for Ubuntu. (Version 33.0.1750.152) and its not there. I can't
remember what he said the issue is.

Guenter, any comments on this effort, any comments on PrimeFaces?

I'm in a great position with a very flexible client because our initial use
will be in-house likely for months. I'll gladly get everybody into Dartium
in trade-off with HTML - although I'm struggling to understand how it all
fits!"

_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
I created an issue https://github.com/szgabsz91/html-components/issues/9

Post by George Koller
Guenter (meine SchutzEngel!),
I'm in Polymer-Component Nirvana!
I am visiting Component Nirvana for Polymerists! - Use in Dartium<http://szgabsz91.github.io/html-components/index.html>
NOT in regular chrome (v 32) which shows nothing, BUT in Dartium
and I'm seeing *the beautiful code of my Dreams *!
I have died and gone to component Heaven with working examples!
Watch out world - my 90's looking UI stuff is getting stepped up.
(I have to seriously consider whether to update at this exact time, I'm
thinking I'll just use the Alert Box with that ominous message to sober up
my client on how powerful and beautiful all this stuff is going to be!)
I'm not sure how I missed this although I'm not in the habit yet of browsing
around the real-web in Dartium.
Is Gabor Szabo a Google employee? If not, seriously, I'd be totally
*enthusiastic* about donating to this site for ongoing expansion and
upkeep. I don't say that often. However it is so important to have A
Central place for actually playing with/viewing/and keeping up with this
stuff, and this stuff will get out of date Soooo Easily if one person is
donating time - I can sense how much work and dedication it takes to build
and maintain such a site.
In my humble opinion, this is singular moment for Web Development - sure
it works and looks great as many packages do* BUT behind that is real OO
Structure and all the power that comes with it.... this is almost scary!*
(BTW the tab code is about 1/4 of my bulky fumbling ugly effort - which
makes sense because a lot of experience and expertise is embedded in those
objects.)
Thanks Again Guenter!
_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
Hi!
Me again ;-)
Because Polymer is still work in progress, building rich elements on top
of Polymer is difficult.
In addition all has to be rebuilt from ground up because Polymer works
differently then existing elements.
I mention only ShadowDOM which renders all existing CSS frameworks like
Bootstrap useless.
We all have yet to learn new approaches that make good use of the new
possibilities.
To your points
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22122280
I think I found the bug that caused some troubles (but didn't get
feedback yet).
He posted a very compact but complete workable example.
http://pub.dartlang.org/packages/html_components seems to be an
interesting project in that direction too.
Maybe it has some components that are more according to your taste
(didn't take a closer look myself yet)
2) polymer-selector makes a list of any elements multi-selectable
You could give it a try
3) I don't think this is anything Dart can fix.
If the browsers don't offer that functionality work-arounds in Dart can
only reach so far.
4) Why would you need this?
It should be predictable and have some callbacks to include custom
behavior at some points.
Polymer hast this already but it is still work in progress and changing.
5) That worked fine for me so far.
What are your requirements?
6) Not sure if there are generic solutions possible.
async/futures have big advantages in single-threaded environments
but nothing comes for free ...
Cheers
Günter

Post by George Koller
Thanks Joao,
Is anybody (else) really using *Dart-Polymer + HTML only* for
non-trivial Apps at this point? I'm still not clear about this.
My concrete idea is that the Dart folks might consider putting a
special section in the Dart-Polymer documentation for "HTML holes" and give
examples of how these "HTML holes" can be filled with strict/best practices *Dart-Polymer-HTML
only* manner. (Guenter is doing this piecemeal over on SO - he's
addressed 3-4 of my problems alone, but only in the context of the question
- which likely is just a unrecognizable part of the real problem. So I'm
not sure how useful SO can be, and there are hundreds of JQuery/ JS,
browser issues and such cluttering up search responses.)
*There must be some two dozen or so of these "HTML holes" that need to
get filled in one way or another to build any kind of Web-App. * My
best guess.
I'd just like to suggest that anybody trying to do non-trivial
client-side "App" programming using strictly HTML5 + Dart-Polymer is likely
to fall into a few of these "HTML Holes". So far, thinking more on this,
I've fallen into 5 and we're only approaching1/2 done.
Maybe this is not a problem because only HTML experts need apply?
Anyway, I think these "HTML holes" taken together are time consuming
potential "deal breakers" and the perhaps have the potential to become a
bigger deal if not addressed one way or another soon. Or maybe these "HTML
holes" are expected to go away when that set of shiny new components is
released. That's a real possibility, but being able to deal with the "HTML
holes" may be the only viable option for a significant period of time, and
may continue to makes sense for some of us, for one reason or another, even
after such components are released.
So my idea is that Dart-Polymer documentation might include a special
section for dealing with these "HTML holes" in a strict/proper
Dart-Polymer-HTML only manner.
So far I can offer up my "Dart-Polymer-HTML" holes somewhat in order of
1. How to implement useful tabs and multi-pages
2. How to get the result of multiples of Options from a Selection
3. How to get a textBox to stay scrolled to the bottom (if you think
this should be an obvious textArea attribute I agree, if you think it is -
you are wrong...)
4. How to gain program control of the polymer element initialization
sequence
5. Preferred solutions and issues for sharing/using a "data commons"
class (between PolymerElement objects).
6. Controlling "flow" between PolymerElement Objects (and dealing with
the Asynchronous issues using Futures?)
I needed to clear this off my stack somehow.
_george

Post by Joao Pedrosa
Hi,
Great to see your progress so far. I am watching Polymer from the
sidelines, but I have my opinion of it too. Why not? :-)

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML /

Polymer" experts only period be likely to last?
I think the knowledge base regarding Polymer will have to increase to
the point that it becoming popular is not an issue any longer. The problem
is that Polymer may look more like a framework than a library, which may
scare away potential users until they cannot ignore it any more. Think of
Polymer as a super library that's as close to a framework as it gets, but
still has great affinity with the web. Maybe if companies like Adobe made
authoring tools using Polymer it would make it popular overnight. Anything
is possible.

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?

I think some of the Polymer work comes from work on new web standards.
So in a way Polymer is "experimental", it's for "dog-fooding" some of those
standards. I just took a look at some Polymer repositories on Github and
while I could notice a good level of development activity, it was just a
few people making the somewhat daily commits. For the most part, most users
are fine with the old web standards.
But Polymer seems to have many users as their mailing lists show.
Polymer seems to be an answer to the impossibility of browsers and web
standards of creating all the possible components that people could need.
Polymer gives users both new components and the tools with which to create
those components while trying to maintain a great affinity with the web.
It's not always easy though.

Post by SwarmShepherd

Post by SwarmShepherd
Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be used

in the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What kind
of overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)
I don't know anything about BootJack, sorry.
BTW, like for so many new components, a Tab control is very unusual on
the web. When we break with some web traditions, browsers may have a
problem coping with the changes.
One way to create a tab control is by having the tab panels hidden
away to the left of the window with a negative absolute positioning of say
-10000. While bringing back the active panel by setting their correct
parent element and positioning.
On the web it can be problematic for multiple components to occupy the
same window area overlapping one another. That could mess up the way events
are dispatched to them and so on. So sending them away off-screen could
help to control that.
Given that Polymer tries to stay true to the web standards, a lot of
the work needed for components without Polymer will still be necessary with
Polymer components. With Polymer apparently users can extend existing
components and give them new features that way, without having to first
create a wrapper for them. That seems promising. But how framework-y is all
of that compared to say a library? :-)
Also some Polymer standards seem rather verbose, say the naming
convention for components: they need to have two names separated by hyphen.
I have used or tried to use many libraries before. YUI, Dojo, etc.
Polymer seems to be an effort to make those libraries redundant or at least
make them to share a common base so they can use components of one another.
Polymer also introduces new standards. We can only wish Polymer the best of
luck!
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Joao

Post by SwarmShepherd
Hi All,
This is not a technical post, I'm hoping for general (and
understandable) discussion of the state of things for Dart-Polymer
components waiting in the wings...
Just spent 1 1/2 intense days in another "HTML crack" where one
really must/should have lots of experience with HTML/CSS *OR* be maybe
use one of those shiny Component Libraries like the DartAPI pages do -
including "BootJack". I see that these very components are being ported
and worked on for Dart-Polymer.
So far my learning experience with Dart-Polymer and trying to use
only standard (simple & unadorned) is* mixed .* But I am learning a
lot so I am not really terribly unhappy - sometimes I get amazing things
done in 1/2 hour. And sometimes I fall between the cracks and lose a day
and more trying to do some little thing like actually fetch the data from a
multi-selection "listbox". I don't know what I don't know, logically
enough, so have been searching and often try to use "JS"y tricks with
Dart-Polymer this way and that only to have it not work.
*Project Particulars:* We have a very "Ajaxy" set of 12 or so
components using WebSockets and that has functioning well for a week. So
far I have been able, with the help of SO twice, been able to get a full
screen of fairly well interwoven components to dance together as I hoped.
But there is a need for a log-in, for a set of related "entry scope"
options, a test page, and a "help page" and scrolling between seems
unnatural, and this seems the perfect job for a set of at the top of each
page "horizontal tabs".
*Last Big "Crack": *The data from all the pages are really one
natural bundle. So having 4-5 separate pages and linking just makes little
sense. Fairly early into researching "Tabs" I realized this is not dealt
with (again) in HTML the in structured way that I know to use. I read
somewhere that one can just use Buttons and make them pretty. I learned
about scrolling, "visible"/"hidden" attributes so after a few hours an idea
for a strategy started forming :) and that was about 14 hours before I had
it actually "fully functional".
*The Particular Problem: *was that my nice "button set" was being
reproduced 4 times, so I needed 4 Polymer Components and each was getting
pretty bulky. (For hours I had a "button set" that told me perfectly right
where I was, but was always off for my current screen". It took, for me, a
lot of trial and error to get a solution.
*MyStory conclusion*: This stuff is for the bleeding edge type -
HTML / Polymer /Dart Ninja warrior & experts! Somebody wanting to "just
concentrate on the application" will find themselves climbing walls again
and again - imho.
*Discussion:* I picked up from Guenter here that he just ported
"Tabs" to Dart-Polymer from somewhere but hasn't actually used. I chased
down his code and studied long enough to think the risk of
overhead/compatibility and such issues was not worth it - at least IF I
could get my silly row of buttons to function. But this is the Specific
case, and I'm trying to think where things are in general. My strategy is
turning out to be this: Keep my UI code as simple as possible and beat my
head against the walls as necessary to avoid the use of any 3rd party
library UNTIL this stuff has been fairly well tested, has become stable,
and there's at least some kind of organized documentation.
*A few concrete questions:*
- When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML /
Polymer" experts only period be likely to last?
- Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?
- Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be
used in the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What
kind of overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)
Sorry for such a wordy posting, I'm probably, hopefully, at a point
now where I only need to add general simple HTML components and the
existing simple model of one component one class with all my other stuff
that has evolved
should get the job done.... but I never know, and perhaps this can
help others.
Thanks,
_george
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,

--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new

--

For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new

--

For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new

[Scott M]

This looks fantastic and I want to use it in my projects. But...

I am a Dart newbie. I'm running Ubuntu and I have GIT (and Dart editor and
Dartium, of course).

My question is how do I "git clone" this library and integrate it into Dart
Editor in such a fashion that I can use this library in many different Dart
projects (without copying the library Dart source code over and over again
in each Dart project). And then how do I refer to this separate library? (I
think this involves pubspec.yaml, and a specific "import" type of
declaration, but I'm still learning the mechanics.)

Sorry for asking such a simple "mechanics" question. If someone can point
me to some Web page that explains how to do this, that would be just as
useful.

Thanks in advance and thanks for pointing out this wonderful library!!!!

- Scott

Post by SwarmShepherd
Hi All,
This is not a technical post, I'm hoping for general (and understandable)
discussion of the state of things for Dart-Polymer components waiting in
the wings...
Just spent 1 1/2 intense days in another "HTML crack" where one really
must/should have lots of experience with HTML/CSS *OR* be maybe use one
of those shiny Component Libraries like the DartAPI pages do - including
"BootJack". I see that these very components are being ported and worked
on for Dart-Polymer.
So far my learning experience with Dart-Polymer and trying to use only
standard (simple & unadorned) is* mixed .* But I am learning a lot so I
am not really terribly unhappy - sometimes I get amazing things done in 1/2
hour. And sometimes I fall between the cracks and lose a day and more
trying to do some little thing like actually fetch the data from a
multi-selection "listbox". I don't know what I don't know, logically
enough, so have been searching and often try to use "JS"y tricks with
Dart-Polymer this way and that only to have it not work.
*Project Particulars:* We have a very "Ajaxy" set of 12 or so components
using WebSockets and that has functioning well for a week. So far I have
been able, with the help of SO twice, been able to get a full screen of
fairly well interwoven components to dance together as I hoped. But there
is a need for a log-in, for a set of related "entry scope" options, a test
page, and a "help page" and scrolling between seems unnatural, and this
seems the perfect job for a set of at the top of each page "horizontal
tabs".
*Last Big "Crack": *The data from all the pages are really one natural
bundle. So having 4-5 separate pages and linking just makes little sense.
Fairly early into researching "Tabs" I realized this is not dealt with
(again) in HTML the in structured way that I know to use. I read somewhere
that one can just use Buttons and make them pretty. I learned about
scrolling, "visible"/"hidden" attributes so after a few hours an idea for a
strategy started forming :) and that was about 14 hours before I had it
actually "fully functional".
*The Particular Problem: *was that my nice "button set" was being
reproduced 4 times, so I needed 4 Polymer Components and each was getting
pretty bulky. (For hours I had a "button set" that told me perfectly right
where I was, but was always off for my current screen". It took, for me, a
lot of trial and error to get a solution.
*MyStory conclusion*: This stuff is for the bleeding edge type - HTML /
Polymer /Dart Ninja warrior & experts! Somebody wanting to "just
concentrate on the application" will find themselves climbing walls again
and again - imho.
*Discussion:* I picked up from Guenter here that he just ported "Tabs"
to Dart-Polymer from somewhere but hasn't actually used. I chased down his
code and studied long enough to think the risk of overhead/compatibility
and such issues was not worth it - at least IF I could get my silly row of
buttons to function. But this is the Specific case, and I'm trying to
Keep my UI code as simple as possible and beat my head against the walls
as necessary to avoid the use of any 3rd party library UNTIL this stuff has
been fairly well tested, has become stable, and there's at least some kind
of organized documentation.
*A few concrete questions:*
- When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML /
Polymer" experts only period be likely to last?
- Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?
- Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be used
in the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What kind
of overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)
Sorry for such a wordy posting, I'm probably, hopefully, at a point now
where I only need to add general simple HTML components and the existing
simple model of one component one class with all my other stuff that has
evolved
should get the job done.... but I never know, and perhaps this can help
others.
Thanks,
_george

[Günter Zöchbauer]

just add a git dependency

dependencies:
http_elements:
git: git-9UaJU3cA/F/QT0dZR+***@public.gmane.org:ErikGrimes/polymer_ui_elements.git

or
http_elements:
path: ../html_elements

Post by Scott M
This looks fantastic and I want to use it in my projects. But...
I am a Dart newbie. I'm running Ubuntu and I have GIT (and Dart editor and
Dartium, of course).
My question is how do I "git clone" this library and integrate it into
Dart Editor in such a fashion that I can use this library in many different
Dart projects (without copying the library Dart source code over and over
again in each Dart project). And then how do I refer to this separate
library? (I think this involves pubspec.yaml, and a specific "import" type
of declaration, but I'm still learning the mechanics.)
Sorry for asking such a simple "mechanics" question. If someone can point
me to some Web page that explains how to do this, that would be just as
useful.
Thanks in advance and thanks for pointing out this wonderful library!!!!
- Scott

Post by SwarmShepherd
Hi All,
This is not a technical post, I'm hoping for general (and understandable)
discussion of the state of things for Dart-Polymer components waiting in
the wings...
Just spent 1 1/2 intense days in another "HTML crack" where one really
must/should have lots of experience with HTML/CSS *OR* be maybe use one
of those shiny Component Libraries like the DartAPI pages do - including
"BootJack". I see that these very components are being ported and worked
on for Dart-Polymer.
So far my learning experience with Dart-Polymer and trying to use only
standard (simple & unadorned) is* mixed .* But I am learning a lot so I
am not really terribly unhappy - sometimes I get amazing things done in 1/2
hour. And sometimes I fall between the cracks and lose a day and more
trying to do some little thing like actually fetch the data from a
multi-selection "listbox". I don't know what I don't know, logically
enough, so have been searching and often try to use "JS"y tricks with
Dart-Polymer this way and that only to have it not work.
*Project Particulars:* We have a very "Ajaxy" set of 12 or so
components using WebSockets and that has functioning well for a week. So
far I have been able, with the help of SO twice, been able to get a full
screen of fairly well interwoven components to dance together as I hoped.
But there is a need for a log-in, for a set of related "entry scope"
options, a test page, and a "help page" and scrolling between seems
unnatural, and this seems the perfect job for a set of at the top of each
page "horizontal tabs".
*Last Big "Crack": *The data from all the pages are really one natural
bundle. So having 4-5 separate pages and linking just makes little sense.
Fairly early into researching "Tabs" I realized this is not dealt with
(again) in HTML the in structured way that I know to use. I read somewhere
that one can just use Buttons and make them pretty. I learned about
scrolling, "visible"/"hidden" attributes so after a few hours an idea for a
strategy started forming :) and that was about 14 hours before I had it
actually "fully functional".
*The Particular Problem: *was that my nice "button set" was being
reproduced 4 times, so I needed 4 Polymer Components and each was getting
pretty bulky. (For hours I had a "button set" that told me perfectly right
where I was, but was always off for my current screen". It took, for me, a
lot of trial and error to get a solution.
*MyStory conclusion*: This stuff is for the bleeding edge type - HTML /
Polymer /Dart Ninja warrior & experts! Somebody wanting to "just
concentrate on the application" will find themselves climbing walls again
and again - imho.
*Discussion:* I picked up from Guenter here that he just ported "Tabs"
to Dart-Polymer from somewhere but hasn't actually used. I chased down his
code and studied long enough to think the risk of overhead/compatibility
and such issues was not worth it - at least IF I could get my silly row of
buttons to function. But this is the Specific case, and I'm trying to
Keep my UI code as simple as possible and beat my head against the walls
as necessary to avoid the use of any 3rd party library UNTIL this stuff has
been fairly well tested, has become stable, and there's at least some kind
of organized documentation.
*A few concrete questions:*
- When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML /
Polymer" experts only period be likely to last?
- Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?
- Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be used
in the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What kind
of overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)
Sorry for such a wordy posting, I'm probably, hopefully, at a point now
where I only need to add general simple HTML components and the existing
simple model of one component one class with all my other stuff that has
evolved
should get the job done.... but I never know, and perhaps this can help
others.
Thanks,
_george

[Günter Zöchbauer]

but why would you clone it in the first place?

just add

dependencies:
http_elements: any

to your pubspec.yaml and you are done

Post by Scott M
This looks fantastic and I want to use it in my projects. But...
I am a Dart newbie. I'm running Ubuntu and I have GIT (and Dart editor and
Dartium, of course).
My question is how do I "git clone" this library and integrate it into
Dart Editor in such a fashion that I can use this library in many different
Dart projects (without copying the library Dart source code over and over
again in each Dart project). And then how do I refer to this separate
library? (I think this involves pubspec.yaml, and a specific "import" type
of declaration, but I'm still learning the mechanics.)
Sorry for asking such a simple "mechanics" question. If someone can point
me to some Web page that explains how to do this, that would be just as
useful.
Thanks in advance and thanks for pointing out this wonderful library!!!!
- Scott

Post by SwarmShepherd
Hi All,
This is not a technical post, I'm hoping for general (and understandable)
discussion of the state of things for Dart-Polymer components waiting in
the wings...
Just spent 1 1/2 intense days in another "HTML crack" where one really
must/should have lots of experience with HTML/CSS *OR* be maybe use one
of those shiny Component Libraries like the DartAPI pages do - including
"BootJack". I see that these very components are being ported and worked
on for Dart-Polymer.
So far my learning experience with Dart-Polymer and trying to use only
standard (simple & unadorned) is* mixed .* But I am learning a lot so I
am not really terribly unhappy - sometimes I get amazing things done in 1/2
hour. And sometimes I fall between the cracks and lose a day and more
trying to do some little thing like actually fetch the data from a
multi-selection "listbox". I don't know what I don't know, logically
enough, so have been searching and often try to use "JS"y tricks with
Dart-Polymer this way and that only to have it not work.
*Project Particulars:* We have a very "Ajaxy" set of 12 or so
components using WebSockets and that has functioning well for a week. So
far I have been able, with the help of SO twice, been able to get a full
screen of fairly well interwoven components to dance together as I hoped.
But there is a need for a log-in, for a set of related "entry scope"
options, a test page, and a "help page" and scrolling between seems
unnatural, and this seems the perfect job for a set of at the top of each
page "horizontal tabs".
*Last Big "Crack": *The data from all the pages are really one natural
bundle. So having 4-5 separate pages and linking just makes little sense.
Fairly early into researching "Tabs" I realized this is not dealt with
(again) in HTML the in structured way that I know to use. I read somewhere
that one can just use Buttons and make them pretty. I learned about
scrolling, "visible"/"hidden" attributes so after a few hours an idea for a
strategy started forming :) and that was about 14 hours before I had it
actually "fully functional".
*The Particular Problem: *was that my nice "button set" was being
reproduced 4 times, so I needed 4 Polymer Components and each was getting
pretty bulky. (For hours I had a "button set" that told me perfectly right
where I was, but was always off for my current screen". It took, for me, a
lot of trial and error to get a solution.
*MyStory conclusion*: This stuff is for the bleeding edge type - HTML /
Polymer /Dart Ninja warrior & experts! Somebody wanting to "just
concentrate on the application" will find themselves climbing walls again
and again - imho.
*Discussion:* I picked up from Guenter here that he just ported "Tabs"
to Dart-Polymer from somewhere but hasn't actually used. I chased down his
code and studied long enough to think the risk of overhead/compatibility
and such issues was not worth it - at least IF I could get my silly row of
buttons to function. But this is the Specific case, and I'm trying to
Keep my UI code as simple as possible and beat my head against the walls
as necessary to avoid the use of any 3rd party library UNTIL this stuff has
been fairly well tested, has become stable, and there's at least some kind
of organized documentation.
*A few concrete questions:*
- When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML /
Polymer" experts only period be likely to last?
- Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?
- Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be used
in the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What kind
of overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)
Sorry for such a wordy posting, I'm probably, hopefully, at a point now
where I only need to add general simple HTML components and the existing
simple model of one component one class with all my other stuff that has
evolved
should get the job done.... but I never know, and perhaps this can help
others.
Thanks,
_george

[Scott M]

Thanks! I'll give it a try. I'm an old guy, and I'm used to understanding
what all the plumbing is doing underneath the hood :) I'm still adapting to
the "new ways." Thanks again! - Scott

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
but why would you clone it in the first place?
just add
http_elements: any
to your pubspec.yaml and you are done

Post by Scott M
This looks fantastic and I want to use it in my projects. But...
I am a Dart newbie. I'm running Ubuntu and I have GIT (and Dart editor
and Dartium, of course).
My question is how do I "git clone" this library and integrate it into
Dart Editor in such a fashion that I can use this library in many different
Dart projects (without copying the library Dart source code over and over
again in each Dart project). And then how do I refer to this separate
library? (I think this involves pubspec.yaml, and a specific "import" type
of declaration, but I'm still learning the mechanics.)
Sorry for asking such a simple "mechanics" question. If someone can point
me to some Web page that explains how to do this, that would be just as
useful.
Thanks in advance and thanks for pointing out this wonderful library!!!!
- Scott

Post by SwarmShepherd
Hi All,
This is not a technical post, I'm hoping for general (and
understandable) discussion of the state of things for Dart-Polymer
components waiting in the wings...
Just spent 1 1/2 intense days in another "HTML crack" where one really
must/should have lots of experience with HTML/CSS *OR* be maybe use one
of those shiny Component Libraries like the DartAPI pages do - including
"BootJack". I see that these very components are being ported and worked
on for Dart-Polymer.
So far my learning experience with Dart-Polymer and trying to use only
standard (simple & unadorned) is* mixed .* But I am learning a lot so
I am not really terribly unhappy - sometimes I get amazing things done in
1/2 hour. And sometimes I fall between the cracks and lose a day and more
trying to do some little thing like actually fetch the data from a
multi-selection "listbox". I don't know what I don't know, logically
enough, so have been searching and often try to use "JS"y tricks with
Dart-Polymer this way and that only to have it not work.
*Project Particulars:* We have a very "Ajaxy" set of 12 or so
components using WebSockets and that has functioning well for a week. So
far I have been able, with the help of SO twice, been able to get a full
screen of fairly well interwoven components to dance together as I hoped.
But there is a need for a log-in, for a set of related "entry scope"
options, a test page, and a "help page" and scrolling between seems
unnatural, and this seems the perfect job for a set of at the top of each
page "horizontal tabs".
*Last Big "Crack": *The data from all the pages are really one natural
bundle. So having 4-5 separate pages and linking just makes little sense.
Fairly early into researching "Tabs" I realized this is not dealt with
(again) in HTML the in structured way that I know to use. I read somewhere
that one can just use Buttons and make them pretty. I learned about
scrolling, "visible"/"hidden" attributes so after a few hours an idea for a
strategy started forming :) and that was about 14 hours before I had it
actually "fully functional".
*The Particular Problem: *was that my nice "button set" was being
reproduced 4 times, so I needed 4 Polymer Components and each was getting
pretty bulky. (For hours I had a "button set" that told me perfectly right
where I was, but was always off for my current screen". It took, for me, a
lot of trial and error to get a solution.
*MyStory conclusion*: This stuff is for the bleeding edge type - HTML /
Polymer /Dart Ninja warrior & experts! Somebody wanting to "just
concentrate on the application" will find themselves climbing walls again
and again - imho.
*Discussion:* I picked up from Guenter here that he just ported
"Tabs" to Dart-Polymer from somewhere but hasn't actually used. I chased
down his code and studied long enough to think the risk of
overhead/compatibility and such issues was not worth it - at least IF I
could get my silly row of buttons to function. But this is the Specific
case, and I'm trying to think where things are in general. My strategy is
turning out to be this: Keep my UI code as simple as possible and beat my
head against the walls as necessary to avoid the use of any 3rd party
library UNTIL this stuff has been fairly well tested, has become stable,
and there's at least some kind of organized documentation.
*A few concrete questions:*
- When is this likely to happen, and how long will the "HTML /
Polymer" experts only period be likely to last?
- Where actually is this stuff, and who all is working on it?
- Is there a (JS I assume) library such as BootJack that can be used
in the interim that would smooth over some of these problems? (What kind
of overhead / compatibility issues / general usefulness....??)
Sorry for such a wordy posting, I'm probably, hopefully, at a point now
where I only need to add general simple HTML components and the existing
simple model of one component one class with all my other stuff that has
evolved
should get the job done.... but I never know, and perhaps this can help
others.
Thanks,
_george
--

For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new

[Günter Zöchbauer]

pub does the downloading (to pubcache dir) and links to each project using symlinks therefor each downloaded package is stored only in one place no matter how many projects use it.

[George Koller]

I have learned so far that:

*HTML Components is a reusable component library containing 47 components
written in HTML and Dart based on the functionality of the Primefaces
<http://primefaces.org/> JSF component library.*

1. There are 2 (TWO!!!!) books on Primefaces!

Will these be likely to be useful?! I'm ready to order asap. Is this a
strict implementation as I'm thinking or perhaps a more "in the spirit of"
kind of thing?

2. PLEASE, I'd appreciate to know anything about if Google is making any
direct efforts or their own at this point? I've picked up on nothing so
far... seems entirely critical to the whole effort to me, but I can see
that there are higher fundamental priorities too.

3. Would anybody be in a position to comment on the fit between the
PrimeFaces design philosophy (whatever it is) and Dart-Polymer?! Why is
it a special fit?


I'm excited about the look and feel of these components as far as I've
gotten. It makes total sense now that I think about it that
re-implementing an existing JS library makes this a much more doable
project for the team of one!!!

Could this be the right time a place to start a interest circle or
whatever, or does GitHub handle all of that too?

I have a lot of 'research' yet to do!


_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
pub does the downloading (to pubcache dir) and links to each project using
symlinks therefor each downloaded package is stored only in one place no
matter how many projects use it.
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new

[George Koller]

*also: *


*JavaServer Faces* (*JSF*) is a
Java<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language)>
specification
for building component <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_component>
-based user interfaces <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface> for web
applications <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_application>.[1]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces#cite_note-1>
It
was formalized as a standard through the Java Community
Process<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Community_Process> and
is part of the Java Platform, Enterprise
Edition<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Enterprise_Edition>
.

JSF 2 uses Facelets <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facelets> as its default
templating system. Other view technologies such as
XUL<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XUL> can
also be employed. In contrast, JSF 1.x uses JavaServer
Pages<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Pages> (JSP)
as its default templating system.

All about JSF <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces>

_george

Post by George Koller
*HTML Components is a reusable component library containing 47 components
written in HTML and Dart based on the functionality of the Primefaces
<http://primefaces.org/> JSF component library.*
1. There are 2 (TWO!!!!) books on Primefaces!
Will these be likely to be useful?! I'm ready to order asap. Is this a
strict implementation as I'm thinking or perhaps a more "in the spirit of"
kind of thing?
2. PLEASE, I'd appreciate to know anything about if Google is making any
direct efforts or their own at this point? I've picked up on nothing so
far... seems entirely critical to the whole effort to me, but I can see
that there are higher fundamental priorities too.
3. Would anybody be in a position to comment on the fit between the
PrimeFaces design philosophy (whatever it is) and Dart-Polymer?! Why is
it a special fit?
I'm excited about the look and feel of these components as far as I've
gotten. It makes total sense now that I think about it that
re-implementing an existing JS library makes this a much more doable
project for the team of one!!!
Could this be the right time a place to start a interest circle or
whatever, or does GitHub handle all of that too?
I have a lot of 'research' yet to do!
_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
pub does the downloading (to pubcache dir) and links to each project
using symlinks therefor each downloaded package is stored only in one place
no matter how many projects use it.
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new

[Günter Zöchbauer]

JSF is server side technology.

The server renders the HTML and JavaScript and the client just executes it.
In Dart all the work is done on the client.

I would expect that much HTML/JS/CSS could be reused when porting the
elements to Dart but
the components might be very different to use for the application developer.

I would look for online resources and check for one component how different
this is before buying a book. Maybe Google books search shows some content
of these books to verify.
Or ask Gabor.

Post by George Koller
*also: *
*JavaServer Faces* (*JSF*) is a Java<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language)> specification
for building component <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_component>
-based user interfaces <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface> for web
applications <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_application>.[1]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces#cite_note-1> It
was formalized as a standard through the Java Community Process<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Community_Process> and
is part of the Java Platform, Enterprise Edition<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Enterprise_Edition>
.
JSF 2 uses Facelets <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facelets> as its
default templating system. Other view technologies such as XUL<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XUL> can
also be employed. In contrast, JSF 1.x uses JavaServer Pages<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Pages> (JSP)
as its default templating system.
All about JSF <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces>
_george

Post by George Koller
*HTML Components is a reusable component library containing 47 components
written in HTML and Dart based on the functionality of the Primefaces
<http://primefaces.org/> JSF component library.*
1. There are 2 (TWO!!!!) books on Primefaces!
Will these be likely to be useful?! I'm ready to order asap. Is this a
strict implementation as I'm thinking or perhaps a more "in the spirit of"
kind of thing?
2. PLEASE, I'd appreciate to know anything about if Google is making
any direct efforts or their own at this point? I've picked up on nothing
so far... seems entirely critical to the whole effort to me, but I can
see that there are higher fundamental priorities too.
3. Would anybody be in a position to comment on the fit between the
PrimeFaces design philosophy (whatever it is) and Dart-Polymer?! Why is
it a special fit?
I'm excited about the look and feel of these components as far as I've
gotten. It makes total sense now that I think about it that
re-implementing an existing JS library makes this a much more doable
project for the team of one!!!
Could this be the right time a place to start a interest circle or
whatever, or does GitHub handle all of that too?
I have a lot of 'research' yet to do!
_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
pub does the downloading (to pubcache dir) and links to each project
using symlinks therefor each downloaded package is stored only in one place
no matter how many projects use it.
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new

[George Koller]

Guenter, its in his Readme.md -

"Right now the examples must be viewed in Dartium, because the dart2js
compiler does not produce equvalent code to the Dart version."

His readme "howto use stuff" also does not give any clue that I recognize
to Server-Side considerations which I want to take as a sign that his
implementation is somehow ClientSide - perhaps he is using only the
component fits / design and changing how they work?

Also I have now written him... I don't mind the expense of the eBook
compared to spending days in these "HTML holes" - that is what is driving
things for me right now - I'm really ready to start the whole project over
to implement his stuff - but I'm busy researching :)

BTW I've been saying over and over that my app is "Ajaxy" and "Ajax" seems
to be an essential part of PrimeFace....

Best,

_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
JSF is server side technology.
The server renders the HTML and JavaScript and the client just executes it.
In Dart all the work is done on the client.
I would expect that much HTML/JS/CSS could be reused when porting the
elements to Dart but
the components might be very different to use for the application developer.
I would look for online resources and check for one component how
different this is before buying a book. Maybe Google books search shows
some content of these books to verify.
Or ask Gabor.

Post by George Koller
*also: *
*JavaServer Faces* (*JSF*) is a Java<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language)> specification
for building component <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_component>
-based user interfaces <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface> for web
applications <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_application>.[1]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces#cite_note-1> It
was formalized as a standard through the Java Community Process<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Community_Process> and
is part of the Java Platform, Enterprise Edition<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Enterprise_Edition>
.
JSF 2 uses Facelets <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facelets> as its
default templating system. Other view technologies such as XUL<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XUL> can
also be employed. In contrast, JSF 1.x uses JavaServer Pages<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Pages> (JSP)
as its default templating system.
All about JSF <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces>
_george

Post by George Koller
*HTML Components is a reusable component library containing 47
components written in HTML and Dart based on the functionality of
the Primefaces <http://primefaces.org/> JSF component library.*
1. There are 2 (TWO!!!!) books on Primefaces!
Will these be likely to be useful?! I'm ready to order asap. Is this
a strict implementation as I'm thinking or perhaps a more "in the spirit
of" kind of thing?
2. PLEASE, I'd appreciate to know anything about if Google is making
any direct efforts or their own at this point? I've picked up on nothing
so far... seems entirely critical to the whole effort to me, but I can
see that there are higher fundamental priorities too.
3. Would anybody be in a position to comment on the fit between the
PrimeFaces design philosophy (whatever it is) and Dart-Polymer?! Why is
it a special fit?
I'm excited about the look and feel of these components as far as I've
gotten. It makes total sense now that I think about it that
re-implementing an existing JS library makes this a much more doable
project for the team of one!!!
Could this be the right time a place to start a interest circle or
whatever, or does GitHub handle all of that too?
I have a lot of 'research' yet to do!
_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
pub does the downloading (to pubcache dir) and links to each project
using symlinks therefor each downloaded package is stored only in one place
no matter how many projects use it.
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new

--

For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new

[Günter Zöchbauer]

Post by George Koller
Guenter, its in his Readme.md -
"Right now the examples must be viewed in Dartium, because the dart2js
compiler does not produce equvalent code to the Dart version."

Thanks for the hint. I missed that one.

Post by George Koller
His readme "howto use stuff" also does not give any clue that I recognize
to Server-Side considerations which I want to take as a sign that his
implementation is somehow ClientSide - perhaps he is using only the
component fits / design and changing how they work?
I'm sure this is the way it is.
Also I have now written him... I don't mind the expense of the eBook
compared to spending days in these "HTML holes" - that is what is driving
things for me right now - I'm really ready to start the whole project over
to implement his stuff - but I'm busy researching :)
BTW I've been saying over and over that my app is "Ajaxy" and "Ajax" seems
to be an essential part of PrimeFace....
Any web application that communicates with the server beside simply

loading HTML pages is Ajaxy.

Post by George Koller
Best,
_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
JSF is server side technology.
The server renders the HTML and JavaScript and the client just executes it.
In Dart all the work is done on the client.
I would expect that much HTML/JS/CSS could be reused when porting the
elements to Dart but
the components might be very different to use for the application developer.
I would look for online resources and check for one component how
different this is before buying a book. Maybe Google books search shows
some content of these books to verify.
Or ask Gabor.

Post by George Koller
*also: *
*JavaServer Faces* (*JSF*) is a Java<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language)> specification
for building component <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_component>
-based user interfaces <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface>
for web applications <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_application>.[1]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces#cite_note-1> It
was formalized as a standard through the Java Community Process<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Community_Process> and
is part of the Java Platform, Enterprise Edition<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Enterprise_Edition>
.
JSF 2 uses Facelets <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facelets> as its
default templating system. Other view technologies such as XUL<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XUL> can
also be employed. In contrast, JSF 1.x uses JavaServer Pages<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Pages> (JSP)
as its default templating system.
All about JSF <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces>
_george

Post by George Koller
*HTML Components is a reusable component library containing 47
components written in HTML and Dart based on the functionality of
the Primefaces <http://primefaces.org/> JSF component library.*
1. There are 2 (TWO!!!!) books on Primefaces!
Will these be likely to be useful?! I'm ready to order asap. Is this
a strict implementation as I'm thinking or perhaps a more "in the spirit
of" kind of thing?
2. PLEASE, I'd appreciate to know anything about if Google is making
any direct efforts or their own at this point? I've picked up on nothing
so far... seems entirely critical to the whole effort to me, but I can
see that there are higher fundamental priorities too.
3. Would anybody be in a position to comment on the fit between the
PrimeFaces design philosophy (whatever it is) and Dart-Polymer?! Why is
it a special fit?
I'm excited about the look and feel of these components as far as I've
gotten. It makes total sense now that I think about it that
re-implementing an existing JS library makes this a much more doable
project for the team of one!!!
Could this be the right time a place to start a interest circle or
whatever, or does GitHub handle all of that too?
I have a lot of 'research' yet to do!
_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
pub does the downloading (to pubcache dir) and links to each project
using symlinks therefor each downloaded package is stored only in one place
no matter how many projects use it.
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new

--

For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new

[George Koller]

Guenter,

I'm looking at his "App" that exercises/ demos the components here:


https://github.com/szgabsz91/html-components-app/blob/master/web/index.html

and here


https://github.com/szgabsz91/html-components-app/blob/master/web/index.dart

and I don't see anything that isn't "beautiful" (and client-side) but, you
know, I'm prepared to "wake up" if I have to.

The book seems mostly "form oriented" where what I think would be most
valuable would be more component level - but I'm 'mittendrin' :)

Post by George Koller
Guenter, its in his Readme.md -
"Right now the examples must be viewed in Dartium, because the dart2js
compiler does not produce equvalent code to the Dart version."
His readme "howto use stuff" also does not give any clue that I recognize
to Server-Side considerations which I want to take as a sign that his
implementation is somehow ClientSide - perhaps he is using only the
component fits / design and changing how they work?
Also I have now written him... I don't mind the expense of the eBook
compared to spending days in these "HTML holes" - that is what is driving
things for me right now - I'm really ready to start the whole project over
to implement his stuff - but I'm busy researching :)
BTW I've been saying over and over that my app is "Ajaxy" and "Ajax" seems
to be an essential part of PrimeFace....
Best,
_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
JSF is server side technology.
The server renders the HTML and JavaScript and the client just executes it.
In Dart all the work is done on the client.
I would expect that much HTML/JS/CSS could be reused when porting the
elements to Dart but
the components might be very different to use for the application developer.
I would look for online resources and check for one component how
different this is before buying a book. Maybe Google books search shows
some content of these books to verify.
Or ask Gabor.

Post by George Koller
*also: *
*JavaServer Faces* (*JSF*) is a Java<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language)> specification
for building component <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_component>
-based user interfaces <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface>
for web applications <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_application>.[1]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces#cite_note-1> It
was formalized as a standard through the Java Community Process<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Community_Process> and
is part of the Java Platform, Enterprise Edition<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Enterprise_Edition>
.
JSF 2 uses Facelets <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facelets> as its
default templating system. Other view technologies such as XUL<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XUL> can
also be employed. In contrast, JSF 1.x uses JavaServer Pages<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Pages> (JSP)
as its default templating system.
All about JSF <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces>
_george

Post by George Koller
*HTML Components is a reusable component library containing 47
components written in HTML and Dart based on the functionality of
the Primefaces <http://primefaces.org/> JSF component library.*
1. There are 2 (TWO!!!!) books on Primefaces!
Will these be likely to be useful?! I'm ready to order asap. Is this
a strict implementation as I'm thinking or perhaps a more "in the spirit
of" kind of thing?
2. PLEASE, I'd appreciate to know anything about if Google is making
any direct efforts or their own at this point? I've picked up on nothing
so far... seems entirely critical to the whole effort to me, but I can
see that there are higher fundamental priorities too.
3. Would anybody be in a position to comment on the fit between the
PrimeFaces design philosophy (whatever it is) and Dart-Polymer?! Why is
it a special fit?
I'm excited about the look and feel of these components as far as I've
gotten. It makes total sense now that I think about it that
re-implementing an existing JS library makes this a much more doable
project for the team of one!!!
Could this be the right time a place to start a interest circle or
whatever, or does GitHub handle all of that too?
I have a lot of 'research' yet to do!
_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
pub does the downloading (to pubcache dir) and links to each project
using symlinks therefor each downloaded package is stored only in one place
no matter how many projects use it.
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new

--

For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new

[Günter Zöchbauer]

I didn't mean 'not client-side' or 'not beautiful'.
I thought it could be that they are very different to use as described in
the books.

Mit freundlichen GrÌßen

GÌnter Zöchbauer
guenter-CK6o3CertDXpqHyzgqq+***@public.gmane.org
[phone]

Post by George Koller
Guenter,
https://github.com/szgabsz91/html-components-app/blob/master/web/index.html
and here
https://github.com/szgabsz91/html-components-app/blob/master/web/index.dart
and I don't see anything that isn't "beautiful" (and client-side) but,
you know, I'm prepared to "wake up" if I have to.
The book seems mostly "form oriented" where what I think would be most
valuable would be more component level - but I'm 'mittendrin' :)

Post by George Koller
Guenter, its in his Readme.md -
"Right now the examples must be viewed in Dartium, because the dart2js
compiler does not produce equvalent code to the Dart version."
His readme "howto use stuff" also does not give any clue that I recognize
to Server-Side considerations which I want to take as a sign that his
implementation is somehow ClientSide - perhaps he is using only the
component fits / design and changing how they work?
Also I have now written him... I don't mind the expense of the eBook
compared to spending days in these "HTML holes" - that is what is driving
things for me right now - I'm really ready to start the whole project over
to implement his stuff - but I'm busy researching :)
BTW I've been saying over and over that my app is "Ajaxy" and "Ajax"
seems to be an essential part of PrimeFace....
Best,
_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
JSF is server side technology.
The server renders the HTML and JavaScript and the client just executes it.
In Dart all the work is done on the client.
I would expect that much HTML/JS/CSS could be reused when porting the
elements to Dart but
the components might be very different to use for the application developer.
I would look for online resources and check for one component how
different this is before buying a book. Maybe Google books search shows
some content of these books to verify.
Or ask Gabor.

Post by George Koller
*also: *
*JavaServer Faces* (*JSF*) is a Java<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language)> specification
for building component<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_component>
-based user interfaces <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface>
for web applications <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_application>.
[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces#cite_note-1> It was
formalized as a standard through the Java Community Process<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Community_Process> and
is part of the Java Platform, Enterprise Edition<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Enterprise_Edition>
.
JSF 2 uses Facelets <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facelets> as its
default templating system. Other view technologies such as XUL<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XUL> can
also be employed. In contrast, JSF 1.x uses JavaServer Pages<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Pages> (JSP)
as its default templating system.
All about JSF <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces>
_george

Post by George Koller
*HTML Components is a reusable component library containing 47
components written in HTML and Dart based on the functionality of
the Primefaces <http://primefaces.org/> JSF component library.*
1. There are 2 (TWO!!!!) books on Primefaces!
Will these be likely to be useful?! I'm ready to order asap. Is
this a strict implementation as I'm thinking or perhaps a more "in the
spirit of" kind of thing?
2. PLEASE, I'd appreciate to know anything about if Google is making
any direct efforts or their own at this point? I've picked up on nothing
so far... seems entirely critical to the whole effort to me, but I can
see that there are higher fundamental priorities too.
3. Would anybody be in a position to comment on the fit between the
PrimeFaces design philosophy (whatever it is) and Dart-Polymer?! Why is
it a special fit?
I'm excited about the look and feel of these components as far as I've
gotten. It makes total sense now that I think about it that
re-implementing an existing JS library makes this a much more doable
project for the team of one!!!
Could this be the right time a place to start a interest circle or
whatever, or does GitHub handle all of that too?
I have a lot of 'research' yet to do!
_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
pub does the downloading (to pubcache dir) and links to each project
using symlinks therefor each downloaded package is stored only in one place
no matter how many projects use it.
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new

--

For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new

--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new

[George Koller]

Guenter,

From this link there is a 531 Page PDF reference (I downloaded vers 4.0)

that is more what I was looking for - a rather comprehensive
guide to all PrimeFace component set. PrimeFace is being (per my
superficial searches so far) reviewed as a better / best of the JSF
libraries.

Here's the link to the page: http://primefaces.org/documentation


Best,

George


On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Günter Zöchbauer

I didn't mean 'not client-side' or 'not beautiful'.
I thought it could be that they are very different to use as described in
the books.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Günter Zöchbauer
[phone]

Post by George Koller
Guenter,
https://github.com/szgabsz91/html-components-app/blob/master/web/index.html
and here
https://github.com/szgabsz91/html-components-app/blob/master/web/index.dart
and I don't see anything that isn't "beautiful" (and client-side) but,
you know, I'm prepared to "wake up" if I have to.
The book seems mostly "form oriented" where what I think would be most
valuable would be more component level - but I'm 'mittendrin' :)

Post by George Koller
Guenter, its in his Readme.md -
"Right now the examples must be viewed in Dartium, because the dart2js
compiler does not produce equvalent code to the Dart version."
His readme "howto use stuff" also does not give any clue that I
recognize to Server-Side considerations which I want to take as a sign that
his implementation is somehow ClientSide - perhaps he is using only the
component fits / design and changing how they work?
Also I have now written him... I don't mind the expense of the eBook
compared to spending days in these "HTML holes" - that is what is driving
things for me right now - I'm really ready to start the whole project over
to implement his stuff - but I'm busy researching :)
BTW I've been saying over and over that my app is "Ajaxy" and "Ajax"
seems to be an essential part of PrimeFace....
Best,
_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
JSF is server side technology.
The server renders the HTML and JavaScript and the client just executes it.
In Dart all the work is done on the client.
I would expect that much HTML/JS/CSS could be reused when porting the
elements to Dart but
the components might be very different to use for the application developer.
I would look for online resources and check for one component how
different this is before buying a book. Maybe Google books search shows
some content of these books to verify.
Or ask Gabor.

Post by George Koller
*also: *
*JavaServer Faces* (*JSF*) is a Java<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language)> specification
for building component<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_component>
-based user interfaces <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface>
for web applications <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_application>.
[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces#cite_note-1> It
was formalized as a standard through the Java Community Process<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Community_Process> and
is part of the Java Platform, Enterprise Edition<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Enterprise_Edition>
.
JSF 2 uses Facelets <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facelets> as its
default templating system. Other view technologies such as XUL<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XUL> can
also be employed. In contrast, JSF 1.x uses JavaServer Pages<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Pages> (JSP)
as its default templating system.
All about JSF <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces>
_george

Post by George Koller
*HTML Components is a reusable component library containing 47
components written in HTML and Dart based on the functionality of
the Primefaces <http://primefaces.org/> JSF component library.*
1. There are 2 (TWO!!!!) books on Primefaces!
Will these be likely to be useful?! I'm ready to order asap. Is
this a strict implementation as I'm thinking or perhaps a more "in the
spirit of" kind of thing?
2. PLEASE, I'd appreciate to know anything about if Google is
making any direct efforts or their own at this point? I've picked up on
nothing so far... seems entirely critical to the whole effort to me, but
I can see that there are higher fundamental priorities too.
3. Would anybody be in a position to comment on the fit between the
PrimeFaces design philosophy (whatever it is) and Dart-Polymer?! Why is
it a special fit?
I'm excited about the look and feel of these components as far as
I've gotten. It makes total sense now that I think about it that
re-implementing an existing JS library makes this a much more doable
project for the team of one!!!
Could this be the right time a place to start a interest circle or
whatever, or does GitHub handle all of that too?
I have a lot of 'research' yet to do!
_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
pub does the downloading (to pubcache dir) and links to each project
using symlinks therefor each downloaded package is stored only in one place
no matter how many projects use it.
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new

--

For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new

--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new

--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new

[Günter Zöchbauer]

This should be a good start.
Thanks for the link.

Post by George Koller
Guenter,
From this link there is a 531 Page PDF reference (I downloaded vers 4.0)
that is more what I was looking for - a rather comprehensive
guide to all PrimeFace component set. PrimeFace is being (per my
superficial searches so far) reviewed as a better / best of the JSF
libraries.
Here's the link to the page: http://primefaces.org/documentation
Best,
George

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
I didn't mean 'not client-side' or 'not beautiful'.
I thought it could be that they are very different to use as described in
the books.
Mit freundlichen GrÌßen
GÌnter Zöchbauer
[phone]

Post by George Koller
Guenter,
https://github.com/szgabsz91/html-components-app/blob/master/web/index.html
and here
https://github.com/szgabsz91/html-components-app/blob/master/web/index.dart
and I don't see anything that isn't "beautiful" (and client-side) but,
you know, I'm prepared to "wake up" if I have to.
The book seems mostly "form oriented" where what I think would be most
valuable would be more component level - but I'm 'mittendrin' :)

Post by George Koller
Guenter, its in his Readme.md -
"Right now the examples must be viewed in Dartium, because the dart2js
compiler does not produce equvalent code to the Dart version."
His readme "howto use stuff" also does not give any clue that I
recognize to Server-Side considerations which I want to take as a sign that
his implementation is somehow ClientSide - perhaps he is using only the
component fits / design and changing how they work?
Also I have now written him... I don't mind the expense of the eBook
compared to spending days in these "HTML holes" - that is what is driving
things for me right now - I'm really ready to start the whole project over
to implement his stuff - but I'm busy researching :)
BTW I've been saying over and over that my app is "Ajaxy" and "Ajax"
seems to be an essential part of PrimeFace....
Best,
_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
JSF is server side technology.
The server renders the HTML and JavaScript and the client just executes it.
In Dart all the work is done on the client.
I would expect that much HTML/JS/CSS could be reused when porting the
elements to Dart but
the components might be very different to use for the application developer.
I would look for online resources and check for one component how
different this is before buying a book. Maybe Google books search shows
some content of these books to verify.
Or ask Gabor.

Post by George Koller
*also: *
*JavaServer Faces* (*JSF*) is a Java<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language)> specification
for building component<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_component>
-based user interfaces <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface>
for web applications <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_application>.
[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces#cite_note-1> It
was formalized as a standard through the Java Community Process<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Community_Process> and
is part of the Java Platform, Enterprise Edition<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Enterprise_Edition>
.
JSF 2 uses Facelets <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facelets> as its
default templating system. Other view technologies such as XUL<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XUL> can
also be employed. In contrast, JSF 1.x uses JavaServer Pages<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Pages> (JSP)
as its default templating system.
All about JSF <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces>
_george

Post by George Koller
*HTML Components is a reusable component library containing 47
components written in HTML and Dart based on the functionality of
the Primefaces <http://primefaces.org/> JSF component library.*
1. There are 2 (TWO!!!!) books on Primefaces!
Will these be likely to be useful?! I'm ready to order asap. Is
this a strict implementation as I'm thinking or perhaps a more "in the
spirit of" kind of thing?
2. PLEASE, I'd appreciate to know anything about if Google is
making any direct efforts or their own at this point? I've picked up on
nothing so far... seems entirely critical to the whole effort to me, but
I can see that there are higher fundamental priorities too.
3. Would anybody be in a position to comment on the fit between the
PrimeFaces design philosophy (whatever it is) and Dart-Polymer?! Why is
it a special fit?
I'm excited about the look and feel of these components as far as
I've gotten. It makes total sense now that I think about it that
re-implementing an existing JS library makes this a much more doable
project for the team of one!!!
Could this be the right time a place to start a interest circle or
whatever, or does GitHub handle all of that too?
I have a lot of 'research' yet to do!
_george

Post by Günter Zöchbauer
pub does the downloading (to pubcache dir) and links to each
project using symlinks therefor each downloaded package is stored only in
one place no matter how many projects use it.
--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/
dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new

--

For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new

--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to
http://www.dartbug.com/new

--
For other discussions, see https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/
For HOWTO questions, visit http://stackoverflow.com/tags/dart
To file a bug report or feature request, go to http://www.dartbug.com/new